Phoenixstar

Thanks for all the replies. I am still trying to find an answer though. The dates of all these supposed floods. The links from what I read, gave dates of floods that pre-dated the biblical flood. That tells me right there that the Noah flood is not backed up by other flood myths. Unless I missed something which is very possible.

River

The True Story of Noah's Ark


The following article is by prominent scientist/surgeon Maurice Bucaille.


The Narration of the Flood Contained in the Qur'an.
The Qur'an gives a general version which is different from that contained in the Bible and does not give rise to any criticisms from a historical point of view.

It does not provide a continuous narration of the Flood. Numerous suras talk of the punishment inflicted upon Noah's people. The most complete account of this is in sura 11, verses 25 to 49. Sura 71, which bears Noah's name, describes above all Noah's preachings, as do verses 105 to 115, sura 26. Before going into the actual course taken by events, we must consider the Flood as described in the Qur' an by relating it to the general context of the punishment God inflicted on communities guilty of gravely infringing His Commandments.

Whereas the Bible describes a universal Flood intended to punish ungodly humanity as a whole, the Qur'an, in contrast, mentions several punishments inflicted on certain specifically defined communities.

This may be seen in verses 35 to 39, sura 25:
"We gave Moses the Scripture and appointed his brother Aaron with him as vizier. We said: Go to the people who have denied Our signs. We destroyed them completely. When the people of Noah denied the Messengers, We drowned them and We made of them a sign for mankind. (We destroyed the tribes) of Âd and Tamud, the companions of Rass and many generations between them. We warned each of them by examples and We annihilated them completely."

Sura 7, verses 59 to 93 contains a reminder of the punishments brought upon Noah's people, the Âd, the Tamud, Lot (Sodom) and Madian respectively.

Thus the Qur'an presents the cataclysm of the Flood as a punishment specifically intended for Noah's people: this is the first basic difference between the two narrations.

The second fundamental difference is that the Qur'an, in contrast to the Bible, does not date the Flood in time and gives no indication as to the duration of the cataclysm itself.

The causes of the flooding are roughly the same in both narrations. The Sacerdotal description in the Bible (Genesis 7, 11) cites two causes which occurred simultaneously. "On that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened." The Qur'an records the following in verses 11 and 12, sura 54:

"We opened the Gates of Heaven with pouring water. And We caused the ground to gush forth springs, so the waters met according to the decree which has been ordained."

The Qur'an is very precise about the contents of the Ark. The order God gave to Noah was faithfully executed and it was to do the following:

--sura 11, verse 40:
"(In the Ark) load a pair of every kind, thy family, save this one against whom the word has already gone forth, and those who believe. But only a few had believed with him."

The person excluded from the family is an outcast son of Noah. We learn (sura 11, verses 45 and 46) how Noah's supplications on this person's behalf to God were unable to make Him alter His decision. Apart from Noah's family (minus the outcast son), the Qur'an refers to the few other passengers on board the Ark who had believed in God.

The Bible does not mention the latter among the occupants of the Ark. In fact, it provides us with three different versions of the Ark's contents:
--according to the Yahvist version, a distinction is made between 'pure' animals and birds, and 'impure' animals (seven [ Surely 'seven' here indicates 'many', as it often does in the Semitic languages of the time.] pairs, i.e. seven males and seven females, of each 'pure' species, was taken into the Ark and only one pair of each 'impure' species).

-according to a modified Yahvist verse (Genesis 7, 8) there was only one pair of each species, whether 'pure' or 'impure'. -according to the Sacerdotal version, there was Noah, his family (with no exceptions) and a pair taken from each species.

The narration in the Qur'an of the flooding itself is contained in sura 11, verses 25 to 49 and in sura 23, verses 23 to 30. The Biblical narrative does not present any important differences.

In the Bible, the place where the Ark comes to rest is in the Ararat Mountains (Genesis 8, 4) and for the Qur'an it is the Judi (sura 11, verse 44.) This mountain is said to be the highest of the Ararat range in Armenia, but nothing proves that the names were not changed by man to tally with the two narratives. This is confirmed by R. Blachère: according to him there is a peak in Arabia named Judi. The agreement of names may well be artificial.

In conclusion, it is possible to state categorically what major differences exist here between the Biblical and Qur'anic narrations. Some of them escape critical examination because objective data are lacking. When, however, it is possible to check the statements in the Scriptures in the light of the established data, the incompatibility between the Biblical narration-i.e. the information given on its place in time and geographical extent-and the discoveries that have contributed to modern knowledge is all too clear. In contrast to this, the narration contained in the Qur'an is free from anything which might give rise to objective criticism. One might ask if it is possible that, between the time of the Biblical narration and the one contained in the Qur'an, man could have acquired knowledge that shed light on this event. The answer is no, because from the time of the Old Testament to the Qur'an, the only document man possessed on this ancient story was the Bible itself. If human factors are unable to account for the changes in the narrations which affected their meaning with regard to modern knowledge, another explanation has to be accepted, i.e. a Revelation which came after the one contained in the Bible.


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beth

Ug! Even as a Christian I could not find proof of a globalized flood. I instead believed in a localized flood, which was the prominate belief till the early nineteen hundreds...

mark9950

There are no windows of heaven,as far as our space program NASA is concerned.

Our space shuttles have never sent back information about windows of heaven.

That must be a lie.

mark9950

Gen7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

1 cubit is about one arms lenght or 18 inches so 15 cubits times 18 inches per cubit equals 270 inches or 22 feet high.

The flood was a local flood rising the water level 22 feet high.

compare with

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/b...a/ax/frame.html

Magus55

Mark, you really aren't fond of reading in context are you?

Read Gen 7:19. It says the tallest mountains were covered 15 cubits. Meaning, there was 20 feet of water covering the mountains.

Rhaedas

So when you said:

Also another point to add that has been theorized, is the earth's topography wasn't always how it is now. Before the flood, the ocean floor wasn't as deep, nor were the moutains as high ( bible speaks of high hills, not mountains - Everest wasn't anywhere near as high as it was now).

You must have been kidding...since Genesis does mention mountains, apparently. Kind of throws a wrench into the whole flatter world that was morphed into mountains and sea trenches to take care of the water, hmm?

Or we could just accept what geology shows us, and that mountains are results of millions of years of plate tectonics, and there was no global flood. At least that makes some sense...

Doctor X

EGGO:

I remember reading about this back then . . . had not seen any follow up. That would certainly contribute to mythmaking regarding floods.

Mark:

THEY JUST HAVE NOT LOOKED ENOUGH!!!

They could be black holes . . . yeah . . . black holes . . . or dark matter . . . yeah . . . that is it. . . .

What I find interesting is the above arguments for "more" water rather ironically drowns the theory of a global flood.

Local flooding provides enough inspiration for mythmakers to imagine a global flood. Not that the simplest explanation ever persuades anyone. . . .

--J. "There were Green Aligators and Long-Necked Beasts" D.

EGGO

I think I just found something about all the flood stories you wanted to see. It's long, and I have no idea if it's what you want...but hey I'm trying =0D <---yes that's my smiley face

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html

And right now I'm getting my thoughts together on why it's not a local flood.

mark9950

Lets say than 100 feet.