brighid

I agree, however therein exists another conundrum. The things the Jews did were directed by God Himself. They were simply following the rule of law as set forth by the same God Jesus was born from. So if Jesus is God, or the son of God (a seperate entity) again ... there should be no guilt or even dislike for the Jew.

God is the one who issued the directives to kill the Amalekites (sp?), et al., who issued the Ten Commandments, who directed Issac, Abraham, Ishmail, etc., etc. The Jews were merely the chosen ones, nothing they had control over. They obeyed their God and when they disobeyed the OT God (who cannot be different from the NT God, unless Jesus is of a different God) He made it quite clear that he would punish them and show little mercy.

No man should hate the Jews for obeying God if they believe man cannot disobey a direct order from God. Don't most Christians believe that if God directs man to kill that it isn't immoral?

Again, the blame and hatred should be placed at the Being giving the order to smite, rape, pillage, repress and overthrow. Man is just a puppet in the Creators plans, because as you say everything is a HE desires it.

Brighid

fatherphil

you could not be any more wrong. it would seem that you are suffering from an inferiority complex.

Zora

Quote: you could not be any more wrong. it would seem that you are suffering from an inferiority complex.


fatherphil, what does this mean?? How is he wrong, and how does this statement refute his post?

fatherphil

persecution and hatred of the jews is developed outside of scripture and most definetly does not find its roots in ancient middle eastern history. no where in scripture are the jews depicted as a "superior" people so i figure this notion stems out of personnal feelings as opposed to serious or even passing study of scripture.

Milton

what?

why would i suffering from an infiriority complex?

that i said that the jews used to be 'the chosen', out all the nations of the world, does not mean i am suffering from infiriority complex. the Bible teaches that!

furthermore, i did not state that they ARE superior!

Milton

but...you said that the Scriptures were anti-semitic. what's the change for?

and have you ever read the Old Testament? it seems you haven't. do you remember the the story of Dinah and Shechem? how they killed all those people and there was no punishment for them? and what about all the other times they attacked and killed other people... they did so many things, yet they were the chosen people.

fatherphil

milton, youu used the word "superiority", i only quoted you. does it bother you that the jews are still considered by God His chosen people?

as for why they are so hated, i would like to know which pogrom or persecution was initiated against them in the name of the inhabitants of shechem? better yet, why aren't the egyptians and babylonians hated for the same reasons?

btw, i've read it a few times. fascinating book and i would never come away from it thinking that the patriarchs or their descendents were any less flawed than the rest of humanity.

Milton

Yes, I used it. But what does the use of it, along with all the other words I used it in conjunction with, have to do with you claiming that I am suffering from inferiority complex?

Actually, it bothers me, just a bit, that there are many Jews today who are obeying the law as much as they can, yet that they reject Jesus, therefore, they will be cursed for eternity.

It bothers me that Christendom had to repeat the same mistakes that Israel did when they were given the Law.

It bothers me that so-called Christians (especially Catholics and their crusades) have to justify murder, just because they claim to be fighting for God--when God has not asked us to kill anyone.

It bothers me sometimes when I read that Abraham lied, yet Abimelech and Pharaoh had to pay for HIS lie.

It bothers me that Jacob stole Esau's birth right, and that his mother (who happened to be mother of Esau, too) was the one who incited him to do it.

It bothers me that Isaac was the one blessed with the covenant, while Ishmael was cursed to be a nomad.

And especially that David murdered a man so that he could steal his wife, yet his life was spared--unlike Saul, who was killed along with his TWO sons. --btw, David had hundred of concumbines at his disposal.

I made an example, I did not say that was the only thing that would make people get jealous of their special treatment. Anyway, I never said that anyone claimed to be avanging anyones death, except a few who might have used Jesus as their excuse. I merely pointed to some of the things that are certain to make people upset.

Because they were never claimed to be the chosen people.

I certainly am sure that I would not kill a whole village of people just because ONE OF THEM raped my sister. I would not lie to anyone, knowing that they would be plagued by some disease if they slept with my wife. And I am far more certain that I would never kill a man just so I could steal his wife.

fatherphil

two things:

do you think the behavior listed above is unique only to the characters in the bible?

do you think God choose them because of any thing they did or would do?

brighid

I doubt many people would do the above things, unless of course they felt justified by their belief in God, a commandment from God in a Holy Book, or by a leader who claims to be a direct conduit to God and has instructed these people that God wants them to do this.

As to your comments about the Jews not accepting Jesus ... you do realize, according to your own mythology that Jesus did not come to change "one iota of the law" and that the new covenant did not nullified the old covenant with the Jews. They are still His chosen people and still bound by the laws given directly to the Jew. As a gentile the law does not apply the same to you and it didn't before the alleged coming of Jesus. You shouldn't waste one moment of anger because they have failed to accept your Christ. Furthermore, if (and I am assuming you aren't by your statements) you become familiar with Judaism through a Judaic source you will find out exactly why Jews do not accept Jesus because he didn't actually fulfill any Judaic Messianic prophecy or requirement. They are quite justified in following the laws their God (who is also your God) set forth for the Jew.

I also hope you realize that Protestanism is just as responsible, since it inception, for many horrors especially during the Inquisition times and was integral in the Holocaust (read Martin Luther's "The Jews and their Lies" and see some striking parallels between his thoughts and what actually happened in a predominantly Protestant population.) Although I think Catholicism has much blood on it's historical hands, Protestanism cannot be absolved of it's horrors by pointing the finger at the evil doing of some Catholics and the Church.

Brighid