Toto

What's the point of speculating on this?

You might as well ask, if the Jews have a right to their own country, why not the Kurds / Catalans / Basques / Tibetans / Macedonians / Chechnyans / you name it.

Every national border you can name has some problem with it, (except maybe a few islands that are nations). Somebody's rights were trampled. Right now, that's history. Every attempt to right old wrongs just creates more misery, more war, more hatred.

Are you proposing to send the Jews in Israel back to Poland or Austria or Morocco or Iran or Ethiopia or wherever they came from? Or maybe reestablish the Ottoman Empire?

pariah

Well its very simple.

White man came to america, killed off many of the Native Americans, pushed them off their land, and eventually took it all. They came, and they conquered. Native American numbers dwindling more and more, and in the near future their race will be nonexistant.

Israel is not entitled to jack shit. White man was not entitled to jack shit either. And of course, Native Americans arent entitled to jack shit.

slept2long

I agree with Vorkosigan on this. They got their own country because they convinced the world to give it to them.

Should any particular religious group or race have their own country? IMO no. Because I think it would lead to discrimination against groups in that country who aren't of the group the country was formed for.

Orin

It would seem that either both groups are or both are not.

Whether or not that is practical is another matter. If it were remotely feasible and no one were to be displaced I think few would deny the Native Americans, Australian Aboriginies or any number of displaced peoples their own nationhood.

Amen-Moses

Entitled? Neither are, it is "might makes right" in this world.

Amen-Moses

The SwampThing

Suaup said:

Hummm, acording to the Bible, the Torah and ancient history, i was led to believe they first emerged in the land now called Egypt... Am i wrong? When they reached the "promise land", they encountered a people living there, wich they slaughtered.
Infact, if you wish to make the comparison between the jewish and the native american, you should realize the jews represent the white men.
The jews took possession of a land not their own, just like the white men did with the north american tribes.
Get your facts straight, please.

Based on the palestinian experience, i�d say the native americans
will never get a country of their own, due to greedy men hungry for power, and just plain racism!
As for the innability for the native americans to run things, i seem to remember they are doing just fine in a resort-casino, somewhere in the US! If they had the same chance to attend colledge and good schools, instead of getting crammed up in some dusty ass-end-of-the-world reserve, they would be just as savy and capable as any man.
Saying that they are not, is just another way of covert racist feeling towards them.
Pretty much the same the jews think of palestinians, wouldn�t you say?

Derec

Because so-called "native" Americans like it that way because they get all the benefits and none of the negatives of both worlds. When it comes to paying taxes or obeying state and federal laws they consider themselves "sovereign" but when it comes to getting welfare, tax-financed medical benefits etc. they like being part of the US. If they were to become independent countries they would have to actually pay their own taxes for their own services, instead of leeching on someone elses tax money.

UMoC

Derec

Actually conquest was very common among everybody up until very recently and is surely not the sole domain of the "white man".
Indians came to the Americas sometime in teh past (18,000 years ago seems likely) and there was conquest among different groups. They were not homogenous much like inhabitants of the Old World were not. Actually it is not impossible that the modern Indians are predominately descendents of a group that conquered earlier settlers.

Quote:

Based on the palestinian experience, i�d say the native americans will never get a country of their own, due to greedy men hungry for power, and just plain racism!

No, they will never get their country because the Indians living on reservations actually don't pay taxes but receive tax-financed benefits that someone else pays for. Actually an Indian ges more welfare than a non-Indian in the same situation just because they are indian. THAT is plain racism!

Quote:

As for the innability for the native americans to run things, i seem to remember they are doing just fine in a resort-casino, somewhere in the US!

Sure, if I had a monopoly buisiness that noone else could open (by law) I would do just fine too, thank you very much, and that without a shred of casino-management experience.
They don't open casinos in Las Vegas or Atlantic city or such but in areas where non-Indians are prohibited by law from opening casinos. Oh and have I mentioned taht they don't pay taxes?

Quote:

If they had the same chance to attend colledge and good schools,

They have all chance in the world due to racial preferences and Indian-only scholarships.

Quote:

instead of getting crammed up in some dusty ass-end-of-the-world reserve, they would be just as savy and capable as any man.

They used to be crammed there, true, but is no longer the case. Indians living on reservations do that of their own free will. They don't want to live in more urban areas but then cry foul that the government is not providing them with everything. Well, you can't have it both ways.

UMoC

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

UMoC:

Considering that we violated nearly every treaty we ever signed with them, waged wars of extermination against them, stole what we could whenver we could, screwed them at every opportunity, gave them smallpox infected blankets, force marched them through terrible winter conditions without adequate protection from the elements, I'd say maybe them not paying taxes and getting to own casinos where other people can't is, well, still barely sufficient for the shit we pulled on them for 400 years running now.

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

To answer the original post:

Who says that the American Indians don't deserve their own country? They had nations long before we ever thought of landing here, but we screwed them over from the get go.

The real thing with the Jews is a feeling a guilt--had ANY major power actually cared for the Jews prior to the end of WWII, there would have been FAR fewer deaths. The US truned away thousands upon thousands of Jews fleeing from persecution. Further, no one lifted a finger to stop Hitler when we had the chance--we just kept giving him more and more. A HUGE feeling of guilt tends to get people to do something.

Why don't we feel guilty about the Indians? LEt's see...they aren't white and we never played cowboys and Jews, just cowboys and indians. THAT'S why we will never give them what they should have been given long ago (or more accurately, never stolen from them in the first place).