Eric H

I work with adults with learning difficulties, and I know that there are some who cannot comprehend the Bible. There is also a man in his sixties who has been both deaf and mute since birth, and he cannot understand the Bible.

God must have known there would be people who would not come across the Bible or have the intelligence to understand it.

If God exists, then he must also have a greater good moral judgement than we do.

We can say that people who do not know the Bible should not be penalized, and that would be fair.

Would we expect God to have a worse moral judgement then ourselves?

Only my oppinion.

Peace

Eric

Radorth

1. It doesn't say when they have to.

2. Only one verse at the end of Mark says those who hear and reject it will be damned, and many Christian scholars agree the end of Mark is an interpolation.

You are doubtless speaking of a small section in James, which those who read the Bible only to find contradictions never fail to bring up. No it doesn't say that. It says if you have faith you will have works, and it is clearly a rebuke to those who have neither.

Rad

winstonjen

So they can be saved AFTER they die?

What about "faith without works is dead"? Doesn't that mean that people need BOTH? But again, there's the last-minute escape clause, so I guess not.

Calzaer

So why the missionary fetish? Do you just enjoy being the direct cause of an entire culture ending up in Hell because you brought some absurd new thing to their attention and canceled the rules they've been living by for thousands of years?

Radorth

The "missionary fetish" is not as widespread as you think-at least not on II. The Christians here generally just want to offer readers an alternative to atheist propaganda, and in my case I admit, satirize their "rational" but contradictory thinking, hypocrisy and reliance on blind faith.

I only get serious when one shows some sign of sincerety and desire to seek the truth as a number have. If I had a "missionary fetish" you would find me PM ing them all the time. When they ask or comment, I answer and leave it at that. The rest get to look in a mirror although I don't chase them around. The worst ones miraculously show up where I am without any help from me, (although some have tired of stressing themselves and looking in my mirrors).

Rad

Jamie_L

You know, if everyone got to hear the gospel from Jesus after they died, and got to choose at that time, then you would not have this "Problem of Unfair Opportunity."

I've always thought that this would be the only thing that really makes sense anyway. Otherwise God would be letting the fickleness of the material world and the flesh dictate who gets saved and who doesn't.

Jamie

Calzaer

It's REALLY hard to downplay the missionary fetish when my grandmother is busy organizing a missionary trip to Romania next fall, and your religion busily sends all sorts of crazy people to all corners of the earth SPECIFICALLY to send other people to hell by exposing them to something you know they'll reject.

BadBadBad

I opened a thread on exactly the same question, Free Will for Children. I look at it from the point of view of Free Will. Does a child growing up in a Muslim family and culture get exactly the same free will choice as someone growing up in a born again Baptist or devoted Catholic family? What about atheist or weak christian? What about obnoxious fundyism to the point it discredits "real christianity?"

My children have a christian mother and have been taught the gospel since they have been able to speak. They've been exposed to the gospel, now they will be uniquely and individually held accountable for their decisions. Someone tell me why she's so worried I might lead them away from God? They have all they need to make the right choice. What difference does it make what I do?

God won't blame me if the kid doesn't worship him, so why should my wife? In fact, I could repent, accept Jesus into my heart, get killed in a car wreck with my kid, and go to judgement with my child. I can just see the look on my child's face now. Daddy convinced me not to believe in God. Now he's going to heaven and me to hell. I don't see him thinking that's fair.

Radorth

You must understand what you are rejecting to be held accountable for it, thus children are excluded.

I believe that some people (perhaps 10% of the adult world) do understand what they are rejecting and make a conscious and willful choice to do so. Thus I do not think a great many people are destined for hell. If they hear it wrong (and see hypocrisy and legalism) and reject that in good conscience, they will likely get to hear it right, repent, and be saved.

Now those who actually saw and heard Jesus have a different problem. They would have virtually no excuse. In the end, I think the question will be how diligently and openly they sought the truth as did "the men of Ninevah" and "the Queen of the south, who came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon..."

Rad

Radorth

That's funny. My church sends people out to help them grow crops, get medical attention, build homes, learn English (as many are wont to), etc, and if they are interested after that, hear the Gospel. I've never heard one of my missionary friends say "they rejected it, so they're going to hell." My impression is that they feel they didn't do a very good job explaining it.

Jesus wanted his disciples to go out and preach the "Gospel of the Kingdom." I think that is a rather rare event. Most go jut to preach "salvation" and make converts. Personally I think many missionaries are wasting their time if all they want is converts. God has the power and the means, and the justification of the cross, to save those souls without them. Even so many governments welcome Christian missionaries because they help people with a variety of needs, including the spiritual ones.

I don't suppose it occurs to you that some Christians just care about less fortunate people, as Jesus did, and want to help them.

Rad