yguy

I'm not talking about ME coming to a conclusion, I'm talking about US collectively coming to a conclusion. If we can't agree on a standard of proof, one opinion is as good as another's as regards which side is correct.

Hey, if you're happy, I'm happy.

I submit that neither is particularly trustworthy.

What you ask for, fatherphil provided earlier.

I'm sure as heck honored to meet a human being with no intellectual bias.

In theory that would be correct, save for the fact that you and I don't agree on what constitutes "methods of intellectual integrity".

I don't know that proving such a thing is possible with the means at our mutual disposal...or at least, I doubt very much that I can do it.

Hey - maybe we're at the same point in the collective learning curve that society was in Galileo's time.

In the hard sciences that is much more true. As for sciences like sociology...well, as C.S. Lewis put it, "There are no sciences like sociology".

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by yguy
Ooooooohhh, a wiseguy, huh?

Sauce for the goose.

Maybe?? Why the equivocation?

Because I would prefer not to make statements that I can't back up with evidence.

Amonng other things, they need to love the child enough to protect them with their life, and to put up with the child's stupidity when it happens.

The latter qualification is your opinion on what makes a person the best for the job. It may not be everyone else's.

yguy

My culinary skills are nothing to rave about, but I believe cooking a goose requires heating it to some point above room temperature, does it not?

Your intellectual dishonesty is as well hidden as a rotting corpse in a solarium at high noon on a summer day.

The parent shouldn't put up with the child's stupidity? What's the alternative, other than throwing it out of the house?

brighid

I don't see anything in the studies you posted that doesn't actually support the position that children are not significantly harmed by day care. Quality has been brought up many times and again it seems the quality of parenting seems to be THEE central issue regardless if both parents work, or one parent stays home.

Brighid

fatherphil

Day Care and Ear, Nose, and Throat Problems


Who is in day care?

The 2000 census reported that of among the nation's 19.6 million preschoolers, grandparents took care of 21 percent, 17 percent were were cared for by their father (while their mother was employed or in school); 12 percent were in day care centers; nine percent were cared for by other relatives; seven percent were cared for by a family day care provider in their home; and six percent received care in nursery schools or preschools. More than one-third of preschoolers (7.2 million) had no regular child-care arrangement and presumably were under maternal care.

Day care establishments are defined as those primarily engaged in care of infants or children, or in providing pre-kindergarten education, where medical care and/or behavioral correction are not a primary function or major element. Some may or may not have substantial educational programs, and some may care for older children when they are not in school.

What are your child’s risks of being exposed to a contagious illness at a day care center?

Medline, a service of the National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health, reports that day care centers do pose some degree of an increased health risk for children, because of the exposure to other children who may be sick.

When your child is in a day care center, the risk is greatest for viral upper respiratory infection (affecting the nose, throat, mouth, voice box) and the common cold, ear infections, and diarrhea. Some studies have tried to link asthma to day care. Other studies suggest that being exposed to all the germs in day care actually IMPROVES your child's immune system.

Studies suggest that the average child will get eight to ten colds per year, lasting ten - 14 days each, and occurring occurring primarily in the winter months. This means that if a child gets two colds from March to September, and eight colds from September to March, each lasting two weeks, the child will be sick more than over half of the winter.

At the same time, children in a day care environment, exposed to the exchange of upper respiratory tract viruses every day, are expected to have three to ten episodes of otitis media annually. This is four times the incidence of children staying at home.

brighid

Well, DUH! They are exposed to a greater number of germs because they are exposed to a greater number of children. Children of this age, whether they are at home or in day care are relative germ incubators. The problem with the above is that it says they are "expected" to have such things, but where is the information stating that they actually contract these illnesses at four times the rate of children at home? Furthermore as the piece mentions, many studies conclude that exposure to common childhood illnesses creates stronger immune systems in children.

A child has to be severely ill to have cold or flu symptons for 14 days in a row. Children are generally resilent and spend far less time being ill then adults with the exact same cold, flu, etc. Any parent can attest to that.

Brighid

fatherphil

are you asking for the study that shows that there is a positive correlation between exposure to germs and contracting illness from them?

fatherphil

August 11, 2000
Web posted at: 5:42 PM EDT (2142 GMT)


From staff and wire reports

CHICAGO (CNN) -- A substantial number of crib deaths take place in day care settings, where caretakers may be less likely know the importance of putting babies to sleep on their backs, according to a new study.

Appearing in the journal Pediatrics, the study of 1,916 SIDS deaths in 11 states found a much higher than expected rate of sudden infant deaths in day care -- about 20 percent.

"If you look at Census Bureau statistics for the number of children who are in child care, you would expect the rate to be about 7 percent -- certainly less than 10 percent," said Dr. Rachel Moon, a pediatrician at Children's National Medical Center in Washington, D.C., and the study's lead author.


Especially troubling, she added, was a finding of children placed on their stomachs by caretakers, more than half were usually put to sleep on their backs by their parents.

Just last month, the Consumer Product Safety Commission launched a 10-year "Safe Sleep" campaign to help lower SIDS rates, particularly among African-Americans, who, surveys show, are more likely to put babies down on their sides or stomachs to sleep

The newest study noted that about a third of the SIDS deaths took place during the first week in child care. In addition, 60 percent of SIDS deaths happened in day care homes, which tend to be unlicensed and run by older women who have less access to pediatricians or medical information about ways to reduce SIDS risk.

"This study is the most important study that has been completed since we made the recommendation that all babies should be placed on their backs to sleep," said Dr. M. Edward Keenan, a member of the American Academy of Pediatrics' task force on infant positioning and SIDS and a former academy president.

The highest risk period for SIDS is for infants between the ages of two and five months, which coincides with the time many mothers return to work, noted Dr. John Kattwinkel, chairman of the academy's SIDS task force.

"It's just one other bid of evidence from a national health standpoint that tells us we ought to be educating day care centers and grandparents, as well as parents" about the importance of putting babies down to sleep on their backs, Kattwinkel said.

Phipps Cohe, spokeswoman for the SIDS Alliance, said all child care providers should be required to have education on SIDS risk reduction.

Census figures show that about 17 percent of children under the age of 1 are in some kind of child care setting, Moon said.

Parents need to make their expectations known, in writing as well as verbally.

"You need to talk to them about sleep position, just as you would talk to them about what your baby is eating," Moon said.

brighid

Yes. Exposure to germs, especially during the infant and toddler years helps to develop a strong immune system for adolescence and adulthood. Also, when you site an article, please include the link. If you could please go back and in the studies/articles you have recently posted please edit in those links.

Brighid

fatherphil

but do they not also get sick more frequently from the said exposure?