Freethought & Rationalism Archive

John Hancock · 05-20-2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat
Yes, it did happen. The Jews are even proud of it.

Sorry to rain on your parade Jat but the latest Archaeological evidence supports the theory of assimilation; don't go quoting some silly collection of myths, rumors, and general superstition that's called the Bible. Wow what a sentence!

Martin

Gurdur · 05-20-2003, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Buber

Sorry to rain on your parade

Now, now, now, children.

Gurdur · 05-20-2003, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Buber

....One of the very first of the Nazi victims was an outspoken Catholic Priest (tidbit).
....

Yes.

In Aachen Cathedral, there is a crypt which contains four or five church officials just from Aachen Cathedral who died in the Nazi terror.

Mind you, the Catholic Church as a whole is very guilty --- the then-Pope supported Hitler and Mussolini.

The Protestant Church in Germany split when the Nazi's did a takeover; the protestors formed a new church, but mostly ended in the death camps.

Tristan Scott · 05-20-2003, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gurdur
Celsus is of course correct.

Moreover, the biological evidence is that both Jews and Palestinians are extremely near-related and both descended from the Caananites.

Not to mention the evidence of the Tanakh itself that borrows extensively from Caananite mythology. The chief Caanan god was named El, which is one of the Hebrew names for G-d. The Jews didn't slaughter the Caananites. (Ecept perhaps metaphorically) They wuz the Caananites.

Jat · 05-20-2003, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Buber
:notworthy Gurdur :notworthy One of the very first of the Nazi victims was an outspoken Catholic Priest (tidbit).

Mark Alinsky history in your mouth is blasphemy!

Martin Buber

If I said night he'd probably say it is day just to be contrary.

Jat · 05-20-2003, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Buber
Sorry to rain on your parade Jat but the latest Archaeological evidence supports the theory of assimilation; don't go quoting some silly collection of myths, rumors, and general superstition that's called the Bible. Wow what a sentence!

Martin

I'm well aware of the revisionist Israeli effort to re-write history to strengthen their claim on the land there. They had even tried to claim that they were there even before the Canaanites. It has not been wholely verified or accept either. So strong is their desire to keep this land that they are willing to even say that most of their recorded history is a lie.

Yes, much of what is in the bible is boloney, but it does contain much actual history in with the mythology. The same as Homer's epic poem the Iliad and the Odyssey helped lead to the lost city of Troy which was thought to be only a myth as well.

Gurdur · 05-20-2003, 05:09 PM

This is getting excrutiatingly funny.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat

I'm well aware of the revisionist Israeli effort to re-write history to strengthen their claim on the land there. They had even tried to claim that they were there even before the Canaanites. It has not been wholely verified or accept either.

This is a completely nonsensical claim.

Quote:

Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

M. F. Hammer*,,, A. J. Redd*,, E. T. Wood*,, M. R. Bonner*, H. Jarjanazi*, T. Karafet*, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti�, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling**, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonn�-Tamir
....
Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of the Jewish Diaspora. A set of 18 biallelic polymorphisms was genotyped in 1,371 males from 29 populations, including 7 Jewish (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) and 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. The Jewish populations were characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that were also present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe. A series of analyses was performed to address whether modern Jewish Y-chromosome diversity derives mainly from a common Middle Eastern source population or from admixture with neighboring non-Jewish populations during and after the Diaspora. Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat

If I said night he'd probably say it is day just to be contrary.

If you refute an argument of Jat's, you get put on his Ignore List

Gurdur · 05-20-2003, 05:19 PM

I've posted above the biological evidence (all nicely scientifically peer-reviewed

),
now here is a good article with the archeological evidence.

Quote:

[from that article]
This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, Jehovah, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai. Most of those who are engaged in scientific work in the interlocking spheres of the Bible, archaeology and the history of the Jewish people - and who once went into the field looking for proof to corroborate the Bible story - now agree that the historic events relating to the stages of the Jewish people's emergence are radically different from what that story tells.

So there you go; both the biological and the archeological evidence agree in pointing to a Canaanite origin for the Jews.

John Hancock · 05-20-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gurdur
Now, now, now, children.

One step back I'm really not senile, It's just an old folk colloquialism. Now you and Jat what the hell's with that?

Martin

Gurdur · 05-20-2003, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Buber

One step back I'm really not senile, It's just an old folk colloquialism.

I was only teasing you (in connection with your comments in an earlier thread). Sorry.
It wasn't meant seriously.

Quote:

Now you and Jat what the hell's with that?

Martin

Don't blame me, mate; Jat just doesn't like being refuted, maybe ?

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