Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Hugo Holbling · 11-10-2002, 06:44 AM

Gurdur wrote:

Quote:

I am an atheist, very much publically an atheist, and I have friends who are believers, half-believers, non-believers, and don't-cares.

I wonder how many people simply couldn't care less?

agapeo · 11-10-2002, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hugo Holbling:


I wonder how many people simply couldn't care less?

Well, obviously the ones posting to this topic have somewhat of an interest. Otherwise, one would think that those who could care less, wouldn't bother. But if you're wondering about how many people outside of this discussion could care less I don't know how you can determine that. So why ask the question?

Edited to correct who said what.

[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: agapeo ]

Hugo Holbling · 11-10-2002, 09:05 AM

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But if you're wondering about how many people outside of this discussion could care less I don't know how you can determine that. So why ask the question?

Right... so should i only ask questions whose answers may be determined?

Why don't you go back and read what Gurdur wrote? It may surprise you, but some folk just don't bother beating themselves up over these things, hence the rhetorical question...

agapeo · 11-10-2002, 11:24 AM

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Right... so should i only ask questions whose answers may be determined?

You are free to ask any question you wish. As for myself -- I usually ask those which I feel have a possibility of being answered. But, perhaps yours wasn't really a question but more a statement. In which case I suppose no answer is really expected.

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Why don't you go back and read what Gurdur wrote?

Why? Do you think I missed something?

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It may surprise you,

I doubt it.

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but some folk just don't bother beating themselves up over these things, hence the rhetorical question...

Ahh, the "rhetorical question"! Oh, ok. Yeah, I suppose you're right. Some folk don't.

GeoTheo · 11-10-2002, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gurdur:


Just why, in Darwin's name, are so many American and Canadian atheists so addicted to sectarian, demonizational, blindly over-generalizing, and frankly hysterical views ?

My atheism is for me a source of happiness and strength.
I do not need to constantly put others down, such as theists, to build up my own ego.
I do not need to build up little persecution fantasies to fill my days.

I am an atheist, very much publically an atheist, and I have friends who are believers, half-believers, non-believers, and don't-cares.
And I get along with my friends by respecting their beliefs halfway in front of them, even while I'm disagreeing with them openly.

I do not need to spend my time disproving the Bible or other Christian contradictions; for me that's a very long-dead issue.
I do not need to show fear where no fear is warranted.

Just call me The Happy Atheist.

[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: Gurdur ]

Gurdur,
You seem to have a very balanced and rational perspective.

GeoTheo · 11-10-2002, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:


Good for you! Where do you live?

Probably the UK or Australia or NZ. Hence "buggered". I think he said "jumped up wanker" also or maybe that was someone else.

agapeo · 11-10-2002, 05:48 PM

Hi Queen!

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Originally posted by agapeo:
how much influence did/does the doctrines and beliefs of Catholocism have on your mother? Do those beliefs influence her in the way that she interracts with others?

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Let's see... those beliefs made her take me to church every Sunday,

Maybe she just loved having you with her at those special times.

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and those beliefs were at least partially responsible for holding my parents' marriage together.

That's a plus!

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My mother was nothing like Gemma Therese, fortunately,

Well, I don't know the history of Gemma to make much of a comment on this one, but I'll take your word for it and assume that you're thankful for that.

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but when I'd come home unhappy because once again, the teachers showed favoritism to someone else instead of me, she'd say, "On Judgement Day, you'll both be equal". I finally get to vent about how very frustrating that was.

I can imagine. It being frustrating that is.

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Ooh. All I have to do is wait about seventy years or so, then die, and justice will be done!

Yeah, that's one option. Another one could of been for you to take down names and kick some butt.

But then, that might of got ya kicked out of school and you would be an illiterate and frustrated. So perhaps she did you a favor.

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I'm just trying to understand from your perspective how one can separate the way they act towards others with what one believes.

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I don't think that I would get along very well with the ultra-religious kind of person who works their beliefs into every aspect of daily life.

Fair enuh.

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I mean, I see this on the Nutwatch all the time. "I shouldn't wear pants because God says that's an abomination." "I just saw a shadow - it must have been a demon." I find that kind of thing ridiculous, and it's all the more annoying if the person in question tries to convert me to their point of view.

I know what you mean.

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However, my best friend is a Sunni Muslim; she prays five times a day and so on, but even before she knew my views, she never brought up religion or tried to convert me. To me, that's showing respect for my right to have a viewpoint different from hers, and I'm more than happy to return that in spades. If we went to a restaurant together, I'd be sure to pick one that served halal meat, because that shows respect for her lifestyle - a respect she has earned. Her beliefs have not earned it, but she has.

Hmm . . . this is interesting! How exactly did she come to know your viewpoints? (If I may ask.) Oh nevermind. It's not essential to know.

Let me make a word substitution. I'll substitute the word beliefs with the word opinions and see if this clarifies what I'm trying to understand and/or say. Besides, some people have an objection to being told they have a belief system.

If it is your opinion that you should treat people kindly (provided of course that they do nothing that merits your wrath) does not your opinion define you to a degree? If you agree somewhat to this then -- How are your opinions formed?

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I don't know if that's answered your question(s) - let me know.

It was a good enough springboard.

Uzi9mm · 11-13-2002, 09:43 PM

Why the hell should we?
They dont like us that much!

Jamie_L · 11-14-2002, 06:40 AM

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Originally posted by Jamie_L:
I think that includes not disrespecting their beliefs unless those people are pushing those beliefs in your face or have invited you into or accepted invitation to a discussion or debate over those beliefs.

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Originally posted by Goliath:
And here is where we differ. There is a universe of difference between respecting a belief that someone holds and respecting said person.

Actually, what I meant by "disrespecting a person's beliefs" was that I don't think it's a nice thing to do to openly bash someone's beliefs in casual conversation without provocation. I don't have respect for belief in UFOs, grand conspiracies, Crossing Over with John Edwards, but I tend not to get confrontational about it with my superstitious friends unless they're really asking for it.

Likewise with Christianity. When I find out someone is a Christian, I usually don't lay into them about how their religion is stupid, even though I think it is.

Jamie

Goliath · 11-14-2002, 09:11 AM

Gurdur,

I got your e-mail, and thank you for sending it. However, I still feel the need to respond.

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And all this sounds so much like the American fundy Christians who see demons under every bed and an approaching Apocalypse.....

I said that I sometimes wondered whether or not xians will be marching atheists off to death camps by the end of the 21st century. I did not say that this was certain to happen. Therefore your comparison fails.

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Rubbish. I stated there is often no difference for the belief-holder in question.

Understood. Sorry for misreading what you wrote. However, I still don't believe for a nanosecond that there is even "often" a difference between respecting a person and respecting their beliefs. Do you have even the slightest amount of evidence to back up your claim?

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Tsk, you agree with my statement - as further explained - but you claimed beforehand to have disproven it. Contradiction !

Can you read? I said that I agreed with the following statements:

"If you despise a person's beliefs, actually hold them in contempt, then at some stage you must show that person your opinion, if you have any kind of real relationship with that person, and if you are honest."

and

"BTW, "contempt" and "disrespect" are not the same thing as "profoundly disagree".

How does this contradict the fact that there is a vast difference between respecting a person and respecting their beliefs?

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I pointed out something is often true.

Yes you did, and without a single bit of evidence to back up your claim, might I add.

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Just why, in Darwin's name, are so many American and Canadian atheists so addicted to sectarian, demonizational, blindly over-generalizing, and frankly hysterical views ?

Sectarian in what sense? I am not part of any xian sect. So, if you weren't referring to sects of xianity (or any other religion), then I have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to "sectarian views."

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My atheism is for me a source of happiness and strength.

Goodie for you.

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I do not need to constantly put others down, such as theists, to build up my own ego.

Nor do I. What is your point?

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I do not need to build up little persecution fantasies to fill my days.

Nor do I. What is your point?

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I am an atheist, very much publically an atheist, and I have friends who are believers, half-believers, non-believers, and don't-cares.

Again, goodie for you. Do you want a lollipop?

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And I get along with my friends by respecting their beliefs halfway in front of them, even while I'm disagreeing with them openly.

Goodie for you. The xians that I hang around with know that I respect them, even though I loathe their beliefs, and we get along fine. So, again.....what's your point?

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I do not need to spend my time disproving the Bible or other Christian contradictions;

Nor do I, since I make absolutely no claims whatsoever regarding the supernatural.

Sincerely,

Goliath

(edited for accuracy)

[ November 14, 2002: Message edited by: Goliath ]

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11-13-2002, 09:43 PM	#68
Uzi9mm Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In front of my computer... Posts: 5	Why the hell should we? They dont like us that much!

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