St. Robert

The existence of anything including the existence of God is not based on man's ability to prove it.
Does a guilty person become not guilty just because man can't prove his guilt? Of course, not. The guilty are guilty no matter what a man can prove or disprove.

luvluv

Goliath, I don't mean to be disrespectful but you seem to be speaking as if we have had some exchanges with each other. You'll have to remember that I am one of about 5-10 regualr theist contributors to this board and there are (I'm guessing) upwards of 50 regular atheists on this board. So while I'm sure you're a swell fella and a genius in your own right, I don't really remember you. What have we talked about? You seem to have formed a really negative opinion about me from somewhere. If my questions frustrate you to that degree feel totally free to just walk away. It won't hurt my feelings.

Goliath, maybe it would help if you told me why you choose weak atheism instead of strong atheism?

If this question is too insulting for Goliath, maybe another weak atheist can answer?

So W@L, you are saying weak atheists believe it is possible for a God to exist? For all of your questions about aliens, Santa Claus and the like, my answer is "I don't know". The answer to all your possibility statments is, I guess, anything is possible. But I thought the "I don't know" part would make me agnostic as regards those phenomena you mentioned.

Devilnaut

Luvluv, just so that you know, myself and probably a few more atheists on this board make no hard distinctions between strong and weak atheism. See the thread "Strong Atheism" (and especially Clutch's explanations later in the thread) for some clarification.

Like you, I see no difference between the statements "I do not believe in the existence of X" and "I believe that X does not exist".

[ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: Devilnaut ]</p>

luvluv

So I'm not the intellectual equivalent of a 10 year old?

Devilnaut

Maybe we both are

Writer@Large

That was the analogy I was shooting for, yes. Another way to put it would be: weak atheists tend to define themselves as atheist with respect to existing god concepts, but agnostic with respect to the "possibility*, considering all we don't know about the universe, that a being or beings defined as "gods" may exist. "Strong" atheists tend to reject both the reality *and* the possibility. Both, IMO, ae open-minded enough to change their stance pending evidence. I personally don't ascribe to either the "weak" or "strong" label myself; I am an atheist, and that's good enough for me, though I prefer the atheist/agnostic division between the known and unlnown.

Seriously? You don't know whether or not you believe in Santa Claus? In the Easter Bunny?

Well, it depends on your definition of agnosticism.

But still ... the Easter Bunny? Santa Claus? No offense, luvluv, but I can see why you're Xian, if you can't even come to a definite decision about *those* two . Looking critically at a god-concept must be far beyond you ...

--W@L

[Edited to complete a thought.]

[ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: Writer@Large ]</p>

Goliath

Luvluv,

Correct. See this thread.

Agreed.

Patronization unappreciated.

You don't remember the discussion that we've had in this very thread? Then scroll up!

Weak atheism vs. strong atheism.

Perhaps it's because you keep asking the same answered questions over, and over, and over again and adamantly REFUSE to tell us what is confusing you with regards to our answers.

Simple: strong atheism entails an assertion about the supernatural, whereas weak atheism does not.

Now, for the third (or fourth?) time, what is confusing you regarding the difference between weak and strong atheism.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

Devilnaut,

Again, there is a universe of difference between the two: Stating that "I believe that X does not exist" brings about an assertion about X. Stating that "I don't believe that X exists," however, entails no assertion whatsoever about the existence of X.

Again, I have no idea what is so complicated about such a simple idea.

Sincerely,

Goliath

tommyc

I entirely agree on this point. However, in language these two phrases are often used to express the same meaning. I think it makes a difference how the two phrases are spoken.

e.g. There is a difference between:

I don't believe that X exists

and

I don't believe that X exists


Actually, I'm not so sure now, but I think it's certainly open to interpretation.

Jobar

Let me state Goliath's point a bit differently.

A true strong atheist says "I believe that God does not exist."

A weak atheist says "I do not believe that God exists."

IOW, a weak atheist has a *lack* of belief. He has no evidence for God; therefore he groups the idea of God with such things as Santa and the tooth fairy.

A true strong atheist *holds a belief*- that there is not God. He has stated that God is impossible, like a massless rock or a temporary permanence.

And, just for completeness- an agnostic states that the question is unanswerable, and we humans are simply unable to know- like a cat cannot answer a calculus problem.