Freethought & Rationalism Archive

AJ113 · 05-29-2003, 07:58 AM

QoS
Although you don't agree with your parents, and possibly you are upset with their attitude towards you, may I humbly suggest that you could try cutting them some slack.

They are neuro-linguisticly programmed in their beliefs, and NLP is a very powerful tool. They virtually have no control over their beliefs, which in turn generate the things they say and do, and they way that they react to your own principles and beliefs.

Although it is much easier to de-programme than you may think, the subject has to be willing in the first place. Clearly your parents are not only unwilling, but do not see any reason why they should even consider the notion, such is the power of their programmed state.

I can tell that you love your mum and dad so whenever similar issues come up in the future, if I were in your shoes I would smile, say as little as possible, and then change the subject.

Aravnah Ornan · 05-29-2003, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by braces_for_impact
Queenofswords, take solace in the fact that according to many theists I have talked to, real Christians never leave the flock.

Did those Christians say how they interpret Hebrews 6:4-6? Here it is:

Quote:

For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Queen of Swords · 05-29-2003, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by AJ113
I can tell that you love your mum and dad

Absolutely.

so whenever similar issues come up in the future, if I were in your shoes I would smile, say as little as possible,

I'm rotten at saying as little as possible. We've had discussions of this sort before :

"If your cousin asks you how many children you're planning to have, don't tell her you don't want children. Just say you haven't decided yet."
"But Mum, that would be a lie. I have decided, and I've decided not to have any."
"Well, you don't have to tell anyone that."
"But she asked me."
"That doesn't mean you have to tell her anything. You shocked her, and it was very embarassing."
"Embarassing for whom? I wasn't embarassed. And if she wasn't prepared to hear my answer, why did she ask me? I was being honest."
"You don't have to be honest all the time. It's better to be polite."
"I don't see why I have to sacrifice my honesty to suit the parochial sensitivities of someone who can't fathom the idea of my making a choice different from the one she has made."

etc, etc...

and then change the subject.

We started talking about organ donations today and I found out that the UAE doesn't allow people to donate their organs. :banghead: I'll try to die elsewhere.

Queen of Swords · 05-29-2003, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by The Naked Mage
<embraces QoS>

Oof.

But anyway, how long have your parents been...uh...difficult?

Ever since I converted them to Christianity, actually. I now reap the fruits of my idiocy, and boy, are they sour.

AJ113 · 05-29-2003, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QueenofSwords
Originally posted by AJ113
I can tell that you love your mum and dad

Absolutely.

so whenever similar issues come up in the future, if I were in your shoes I would smile, say as little as possible,

I'm rotten at saying as little as possible. We've had discussions of this sort before :

"If your cousin asks you how many children you're planning to have, don't tell her you don't want children. Just say you haven't decided yet."

"OK Mum. Are you feeling any better today?"

That didn't hurt, now did it?
You can even tell your cousin the truth, if you want. If it gets back to your mum I'm sure you'll think of something.

"Sorry, Mum I forgot."

Queen of Swords · 05-29-2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by AJ113
That didn't hurt, now did it?

It's not a question of hurting, it's (to me) a question of what's right. Is it right (according to Christianity) for them to say that their god will punish someone, whether in this life or the next? I want to know if there's any theological justification for what they claim, and I was really hoping to hear that from the theists here.

Darth Dane · 05-29-2003, 01:01 PM

Quote:

How do you explain these passages in Matthew 13, where Jesus says:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
...
49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous
50 and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like Jesus is talking about eternal punishment to me.

lugotorix

He doesn't use the word eternal here. It's just a reaction to their actions.

I can't tell you what is right or wrong, but I can tell you that if you touch red-hot iron, you will get burned.

So by being an asshole, you'll taste the effect of being an asshole unto themselves, after that into Heaven.

DD - Love Spliff

BrotherMan · 05-29-2003, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QueenofSwords

Quote:

Naked Mage
But anyway, how long have your parents been...uh...difficult?

Ever since I converted them to Christianity, actually. I now reap the fruits of my idiocy, and boy, are they sour.

AH HA! See! God IS punishing you!

MortalWombat · 05-29-2003, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Mum : So you made her an atheist?
Me : Well, she became either that or an agnostic.
Mum : God will punish you for that.
Me : What?
Mum : It's a terrible thing.
Me : How is he supposed to punish me? If the bible is accurate, he's already sending me to hell for being an atheist. What's he going to do - send me to hell some more?
Dad : No, before you die.
Me : Before I die, what?
Dad : You'll get your punishment before you die.

Quote:

But anyway, how long have your parents been...uh...difficult?

Ever since I converted them to Christianity, actually. I now reap the fruits of my idiocy, and boy, are they sour.

::: DING DING DING :::

I think you now know what your punishment is.

[edited to add] DOH! I wasn't fast enough!

AJ113 · 05-29-2003, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QueenofSwords
Originally posted by AJ113
That didn't hurt, now did it?

It's not a question of hurting, it's (to me) a question of what's right. Is it right (according to Christianity) for them to say that their god will punish someone, whether in this life or the next? I want to know if there's any theological justification for what they claim, and I was really hoping to hear that from the theists here.

OK, over to the theists, then.......

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05-29-2003, 07:58 AM	#21
AJ113 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hull UK Posts: 854	QoS Although you don't agree with your parents, and possibly you are upset with their attitude towards you, may I humbly suggest that you could try cutting them some slack. They are neuro-linguisticly programmed in their beliefs, and NLP is a very powerful tool. They virtually have no control over their beliefs, which in turn generate the things they say and do, and they way that they react to your own principles and beliefs. Although it is much easier to de-programme than you may think, the subject has to be willing in the first place. Clearly your parents are not only unwilling, but do not see any reason why they should even consider the notion, such is the power of their programmed state. I can tell that you love your mum and dad so whenever similar issues come up in the future, if I were in your shoes I would smile, say as little as possible, and then change the subject.

05-29-2003, 11:31 AM	#23
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Originally posted by AJ113 I can tell that you love your mum and dad Absolutely. so whenever similar issues come up in the future, if I were in your shoes I would smile, say as little as possible, I'm rotten at saying as little as possible. We've had discussions of this sort before : "If your cousin asks you how many children you're planning to have, don't tell her you don't want children. Just say you haven't decided yet." "But Mum, that would be a lie. I have decided, and I've decided not to have any." "Well, you don't have to tell anyone that." "But she asked me." "That doesn't mean you have to tell her anything. You shocked her, and it was very embarassing." "Embarassing for whom? I wasn't embarassed. And if she wasn't prepared to hear my answer, why did she ask me? I was being honest." "You don't have to be honest all the time. It's better to be polite." "I don't see why I have to sacrifice my honesty to suit the parochial sensitivities of someone who can't fathom the idea of my making a choice different from the one she has made." etc, etc... and then change the subject. We started talking about organ donations today and I found out that the UAE doesn't allow people to donate their organs. :banghead: I'll try to die elsewhere.

05-29-2003, 11:35 AM	#24
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Originally posted by The Naked Mage <embraces QoS> Oof. But anyway, how long have your parents been...uh...difficult? Ever since I converted them to Christianity, actually. I now reap the fruits of my idiocy, and boy, are they sour.

05-29-2003, 11:52 AM	#26
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Originally posted by AJ113 That didn't hurt, now did it? It's not a question of hurting, it's (to me) a question of what's right. Is it right (according to Christianity) for them to say that their god will punish someone, whether in this life or the next? I want to know if there's any theological justification for what they claim, and I was really hoping to hear that from the theists here.

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