Clutch

Who would be annoyed? I'm explaining that I would not be annoyed, that I would regard this as evidence at least for some very powerful agent. If having actual evidence would annoy you, that's your problem; presumably a very good god would not go out of its way to annoy you.

These are requests for evidence that would be effortlessly fulfilled by an omniscient being. But look at the hysteria of your attempts to describe these requests as unreasonable or outrageous! I hope you will reflect on what your desperation here suggests.

Dargo

It would hardly be necessary for god to appear every day, nor would it be necessary for him to explain everything. He would simply need to ensure that each person has a fair opportunity to be reasonably certain of his existance and hear his exact words thus leaving no opportunity for frauds to claim to speak for him. Also, he would need to prevent the confusion that has divided Christianity into numerous sects thus destroying its credibility.

National leaders don't need constant media coverage to convey their messages to the people. However, they do need to make sure that all of their citizens can hear their important messages.

Since god has according to you already sent us the bible which covers all conceivable topics he should only need to appear briefly every twenty years or so to remind us of its truth.

National leaders will not allow frauds to claim to speak for them. Bush is a poor president, but if some lunatic claimed to be the only authentic spokeman for the White House and actually conned some people into believing it, you can bet Bush would make it clear that the nut case did not speak for him.

Don't you think if god did this that would prevent "false" religions from being formed? If people persisted in believing the false prophet, god could strike the liar dead. Surely better to kill one evil man than allow him to deceive many thus damning them to hell. If you say your god doesn't work that way, I would remind you that death by stoning was the mandatory Old Testament penalty for false prophets. Your alleged god, supposedly, used to go on a killing rampage every time the Israelites sneezed wrong. In the past 2000 years, people have lied, cheated, stole, raped, murdered, ect in the name of Jesus and he has not done one damn thing to stop them. I know if I had donated a substantial sum of money to a charity and later found out that money was embezzled I would certainly try to see that those responsible were brought to justice and the money put to its intended us. Yet, your god sat on his ass and watched his "holy" "true" church turn into a criminal organization. If god had appeared regularly and punished those who distorted his message, this would never have happened.

Of course, Jebus died for our sins 2000 years ago and rose from the dead. Then the apostles performed great miracles. We should just focus on those wonderful things and ignore all the nasty stuff that happened later. We should also over look the embarasing lack of evidence today. Those ancient miracles recorded in that contradictory holy book in an era of extreme superstitition is more than enough evidence.

NOGO

NOGO:
How do you come to such a conclusion?
Even if some of the resurrection accounts were inserted later it still points to fabricated story rather than actual history.


You are twisting the arguement in you favour.

This is what I base my comment on
1 Corinth 15
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Do you see the word crucified anywhere?
I am talking about the words "according to Scriptures"
In order to show that death had been vanquished on must die and resurrect.

Paul does not say that Jesus was crucified according to scriptures.

Obviously dying of old ages would not do because of the lamb of God sacrifice for sin. The reasonable question that you may have us why crucifixion rather than any other form of death?


Perhaps this is all they had. A leader who was crucified.

worldling

Ben Franklin wroteSpot on BF. I would like to reiterate it too, because the more often it is reiterated the more likely it is that it will finally sink in through the skulls of xians who believe that the question "What about the empty tomb?" is some kind of apologetic trump card, when in fact they might as well ask "If there was no Resurrection, how do you explain the Resurrection?"

Next time someone asks "What about the empty tomb?" all you need to day is:

"What f**king empty tomb, turdwit?"

malookiemaloo

Well, of course you don't have to explain the empty tomb if there wasn't one!!

But can I, if I may, go back to my original question? How did Christianity start. I believe that it could not have started other than by Jesus indeed rising from the dead. No other explanation fits.

After all Christianity exists. There was a time when it didn't. How did we get from the time when there was no Christianity to a time when there is? (In other words, Baldrick, how did the war start?).


Alistair (malookiemaloo)

Clutch

Yes, how did the Norse panoply of gods get started?

It can only be explained by the hypothesis that humans had actual knowledge of Odin, son of Bor, son of Buri, spontaneously generated from the salt-lick of the giant cow Audhumla.

I know that sounds strange to someone who just assumes metaphysical naturalism (a priori, as Tercel would add automatically). But it's the only account that makes historical and scientific sense.

Benjamin Franklin

Can you explain how all other religions started. Shall we accept as true that those that you fail to explain.


BF

malookiemaloo

Any chance you could answer my question?


Alistair

malookiemaloo

Thank you BF. That is exactly the point I am making.

We CAN explain how all other religions started. All I am saying is I believe Christianity started because Jesus rose from the dead. I am open to any other theories which stack up.


Alistair

Benjamin Franklin

You mean to tell me you have a explanation for how the millions of religions that has existed started. I would like to hear it. You can start with the ones that are still currently existing.

BF