meritocrat

Facing the 'meaningless existence' would be considered by some as a sign of strength (ergo not cowardly).

Psychic

Man … you’ve just re-lighted my agony! I guess we are sharing the same fate of the depressive personality. Friends of torment! Man I’ve suffered for years, and still suffering, from my genetic depressive tendencies. My world is not pink! Not at all, I am just cognitively holding a bucket of pink paint with my left, and my paint brush with my right, trying to paint every picture, every emotion, every thought! Painting over the ugly parts, and over the black smudges others have left on my picture of the world.
No I haven’t tried taking medications … Yet! as my nickname implies I am very interested in psychology, and being someone who ,to an acceptable limits, able to deal with the mind, I am trying to help out myself with something called Cognitive therapy of depression. I am still hanging on quite well, but I still suffer my relapses, and still suffer a mild depression that seems to be stuck to my mind.
Actually … (I don’t know about you in this regard) but I am a medical student also. So while doing my psychiatry training (which I enjoyed to the maximum) I’ve gone thoroughly through the depressive disorders, and reached a diagnosis! Something called (depressive neurosis=dysthymic disorder=depressive personality disorder) which, in short, is a chronic state of mild depression, that is most of the time not severe enough to reach a diagnosis of depression. but of course since ”depression begets only more depression” those people are more prone to develop episodes of clinical depression. I don’t know if this description fits you man, but it does describe me.
I can elaborate more of it would be of any use to you. One thing to add: those people are usually still able to cope with everyday life events, but usually have a feeling of being inadequate. They need enormous amount of stimulation to feel joy, and most of their activities even the amusing ones are considered as an effort.


True. I do agree that our worldview is not in any way less valid! But I think we can both agree that our world view is less productive, less joyful, and more tormenting. so from a pragmatic aspect, our world view is not the best. (and that’s just because I don’t want to say wrong).

Psychic

you are weird! way weird!
Facing meaningless existence would be considered as a sign of strength!
don't you think it would be better describe as a sign of foolishness!
IF life is worth something to you, then you had a depressive episode for example that made you loss the conviction that life is meaningful, then this would be a couragoues act to fight those temporarily emotions!
but to face a totally meaningless life is an act of complete stupidity.
fighting for nothing!!
wow.

Ice

Have you considered how the suicidal person felt as he contemplates death? Or do you think it is simply "Oh, fuck the world, I'm scared of life, so I'm killing myself?"

meritocrat

There are solutions to all problems. Does the suicidal person truly believe in or consider that?

In this thread people have rightfully cited depression as a cause of suicidal tendencies. Why not help yourself and seek psychiatric help for this depression?

No I don't. What is a meaninfgful life? Surely that is a subjective concept. Having the ability to withstand difficulty is a sign of strength.

The AntiChris

Yes.
So who the fuck are you to pronounce judgement on others?

Chris

meritocrat

There's nothing wrong with judging, but that's besides the point.

Suicide simply is a waste of life. Why throw your life away for a problem that may have a simple solution?

Buddrow_Wilson

I have never been able to this. What I have done is gone to multiple counselors, psychologists, and psychiatrists in my lifetime. I was also hospitalized twice for depression as a teen-ager. All these professionals and their opinions did nothing to help me. Almost every single one of them came across as arrogant and not particularly insightful. The few that I did respect and enjoy talking with only helped as much as talking to a friend helps. Its nice to share, but never solved anything. Drug therapy did help to an extent, but I knew I would not want to take them indefinately and weaned myself from them. Not just once, its a cycle I've gone through multiple times.

Now though I am tired of living such a life, and have, on my own. Stopped taking medications for over a year. Returning to college (where I was originally a psychology major, but now computers) I am 28 years old and have only accomplished in my life what someone 19 or 20 would have. I have wasted enough time, and there is no more life to lose. So I have decided to be responsible and take control. I did this all on my own. The mental health profession, for me at least, did little more than enable my unhealthiness, but perhaps I was never really open to them. Regardless, I am moving forward.

Perhaps my brain chemistry has settled into something more manageable.

As for my diagnoses, they were generally described as severe depression and/or bi-polar disorder.

I agree. Less productive, even counter-productive.

I think more than anything to keep living with near-certain knowledge of meaninglessness takes extreme will. Whether brave or foolhardy, the sheer act of continuing life in a severely depressed state takes an amazing amount of will power; while to an observer probably seems quite lazy and slovenly.

That is the correct atitude to have from a societal viewpoint. The individual may still contribute much to society, and the death would be a waste.

Do I find joy in life today? Somewhat. I still have a deep feeling of foreboding and uncertainty regarding my ability to succeed in life, but I find my ability to succeed in the present is much improved. Well that's enough for now.

LostGirl

The thing is, even "physiological" depression (ie, caused by chemical imbalance in the brain) can't always be treated with the drugs we have. Every depression is a little bit different, and sometimes, the side effects make living without the "black dog" almost or more painful than living with it.
The other thing to point out is that in countries where doctor-assisted euthanasia is practiced, it's quite a process to get 'approved'. Usually, the agreement of 3 or 4 doctors/ethicists/psychiatrists are required, as well as interviews with patients who must express a consistent and extended (or prolonged) desire to end their own lives. With most suicidal tendencies, the desire is not prolonged. One of the main strategies of suicide hotlines is apparently getting the caller to believe that living five more minutes or two more hours would be endurable. If they can endure the passing storm, then they recover.
These kinds of suicides wouldn't be acceptable for euthanasia. Clearly, if not temporarily irrational, the desire is one that passes. Other suicides, where there is a persistent desire to escape a life that's filled only with pain and longing for release might have a more satisfactory death for themselves and their families through euthanasia. Both sides can prepare, and reach acceptance or understanding, followed by a peaceful goodbye. Contrast this to having beloved family members come across your corpse as a surprise one day; or hearing about someone comitting suicide publicly on the the news and then finding out it's someone you love. That's a far more horrifying proposition, IMO.

So: when a desire to suicide comes from an irrational state of mind, then it's clearly irrational. But this is not always the case.

meritocrat

Not all cases of depression are linked to chemical imbalances. In most instances depression can be treated well by a good psychiatrist. Is THAT not better than taking your own life?