Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Rhea · 04-09-2003, 06:23 AM

yooo-hooo!

Christians!

Rhea · 04-09-2003, 10:53 AM

I _really_ am interested...

Opera Nut · 04-09-2003, 11:41 PM

My dad died in the summer of 2000 (leukemia) and my mom died this past October(heart failure). They were both really old, in their 80s. They were middle aged when they had me. I'm 48 now and an orphan with no close relatives except my daughter.

They lived in a little town in East Texas where the most liberal church is the Methodist. No Catholics, No Whiskeypalians, No Presbys.

I have gone up there for 40 years, so the old folks there know me since I was a kid, and even refer to me as "Mrs. Ryan's granddaughter" since they knew my grandparents.

When people up there say they were praying for me, I just say "Thank you" and go on. I know they want to feel like they are doing something, and I do not want to alienate them. I don't think it's appropriate to get in peoples' faces in that situation.

My folks had some slight contact with the Methodist church but when they died they were atheists.

They are good people and I don't need to let them know that I don't believe in their religion, in that situation.

Rhea · 04-10-2003, 05:35 AM

I am sorry for your loss. Even with a long life of memories to keep it is still difficult to lose a parent.

I agree that in most cases it it not necessary or appropriate to get in their faces. Especially if they are doing it in a situation as you describe where they are seeking their own comfort in a loss with you.

HOWEVER,

I don't feel it is rude or inappropriate for my response in some situations to be: "Thank you, but I'd really rather you prayed for abused children. I'm okay here." Such as in the situation where they are praying for MY broken ankle or whatever.

Just as some people say, "please don't send flowers, Helga would have wanted contributions to the following charity". That's not rude, is it?

Infinity Lover · 04-10-2003, 09:47 AM

My 2 cts

Religion is everywhere, and to me life's too damn short to get all hung up on the many different harmless ways in which it manifests itself.

Opera Nut · 04-10-2003, 12:55 PM

I don't ask people to pray for anything, me or anybody else, because I don't believe that prayer works.

Rhea · 04-10-2003, 01:00 PM

Intensity:

Quote:

different harmless ways in which it manifests itself.

I guess I was trying to say that I do NOT find it harmless, because it represents an embrace of corruption. That was the point of my explanation.

Opera Nut:
I don't believe donating to the Police Benevolent Society works, either, yet it still disturbs me and offends me that people believe donating provides protection and the PBA gives out stickers for people to put on their cars with dates on them that imply protection.

That's all.

I'm not all violent about this. It's academic.

Illithid · 04-10-2003, 11:03 PM

Not quite the same topic, (and I know it's been done) but I always find the "bless you" after a sneeze to be funny. My employees all know I'm atheist, so some of them after reflexively saying "bless you" will hastily apologize. I grin at them, since I don't care a bit about it, but sometimes respond "Hare Krishna". They bless me in the name (even if implied) of a god I don't believe in, I return the favor.

Here's a funny: my wife gets annoyed that I don't say "bless you" after she sneezes. She says it's just polite. I shrug, tell her a sneeze doesn't engender any need to be blessed, even were such a thing meaningful. But sometimes I say "gesundheit" (health) to make her feel better.

Infinity Lover · 04-11-2003, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhea
[B] I do NOT find it harmless, because it represents an embrace of corruption. /B]

To the people doing it it doesn't.

(I'm thinking about that Aretha Franklin song now... [i]"Each morning I wake up, before I put on my make up... I'll represent a little embrace of corruption for you." yup; sounds silly to me.)

Rhea · 04-11-2003, 05:28 AM

I'm not sure if you're being funny or not. Or just not understanding my point. Oh well, doesn't matter I guess. Just dismiss it an move on if it is "silly" to you. I was looking for discussion on something that is important to me in a philosophical sense.

Of _course_ it doesn't represent corruption to them, they aren't thinking about the implications of asking a god to fix one person. They don't think it through at all, I don't think. They just stop thinking at the point of getting their street paved. And that is the troublesome part, corruption is such an integral part of their lives that they don't even consider the impact of paving streets based on bribes. It seems like a good system to them. They consider themselves to be good, moral people and it doesn't bother them a bit to have streets left unpaved due to lack of bribes. That's their system.

The people donating to the PBA are often not thinking of their role in corruption, either. They tell thmeselves that they want to contribute to the widows and orphans. But they put the sticker on their car, right where a cop will see it as s/he walks to the window... subconsciously? It's a system that bothers me. It's not a good way to run a society, IMO. Police should NEVER give out stickers saying who is a supporter. It sends a message of corruption. Yet, it's their system. They think it's a good one. They think they're moral people, and they just don't think through the implications of the system.

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04-09-2003, 06:23 AM	#51
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	yooo-hooo! Christians!

04-09-2003, 10:53 AM	#52
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	I _really_ am interested...

04-09-2003, 11:41 PM	#53
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	My dad died in the summer of 2000 (leukemia) and my mom died this past October(heart failure). They were both really old, in their 80s. They were middle aged when they had me. I'm 48 now and an orphan with no close relatives except my daughter. They lived in a little town in East Texas where the most liberal church is the Methodist. No Catholics, No Whiskeypalians, No Presbys. I have gone up there for 40 years, so the old folks there know me since I was a kid, and even refer to me as "Mrs. Ryan's granddaughter" since they knew my grandparents. When people up there say they were praying for me, I just say "Thank you" and go on. I know they want to feel like they are doing something, and I do not want to alienate them. I don't think it's appropriate to get in peoples' faces in that situation. My folks had some slight contact with the Methodist church but when they died they were atheists. They are good people and I don't need to let them know that I don't believe in their religion, in that situation.

04-10-2003, 05:35 AM	#54
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	I am sorry for your loss. Even with a long life of memories to keep it is still difficult to lose a parent. I agree that in most cases it it not necessary or appropriate to get in their faces. Especially if they are doing it in a situation as you describe where they are seeking their own comfort in a loss with you. HOWEVER, I don't feel it is rude or inappropriate for my response in some situations to be: "Thank you, but I'd really rather you prayed for abused children. I'm okay here." Such as in the situation where they are praying for MY broken ankle or whatever. Just as some people say, "please don't send flowers, Helga would have wanted contributions to the following charity". That's not rude, is it?

04-10-2003, 09:47 AM	#55
Infinity Lover Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,047	My 2 cts Religion is everywhere, and to me life's too damn short to get all hung up on the many different harmless ways in which it manifests itself.

04-10-2003, 12:55 PM	#56
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	I don't ask people to pray for anything, me or anybody else, because I don't believe that prayer works.

04-10-2003, 11:03 PM	#58
Illithid Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: BF, Texas Posts: 161	Not quite the same topic, (and I know it's been done) but I always find the "bless you" after a sneeze to be funny. My employees all know I'm atheist, so some of them after reflexively saying "bless you" will hastily apologize. I grin at them, since I don't care a bit about it, but sometimes respond "Hare Krishna". They bless me in the name (even if implied) of a god I don't believe in, I return the favor. Here's a funny: my wife gets annoyed that I don't say "bless you" after she sneezes. She says it's just polite. I shrug, tell her a sneeze doesn't engender any need to be blessed, even were such a thing meaningful. But sometimes I say "gesundheit" (health) to make her feel better.

04-11-2003, 05:28 AM	#60
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	I'm not sure if you're being funny or not. Or just not understanding my point. Oh well, doesn't matter I guess. Just dismiss it an move on if it is "silly" to you. I was looking for discussion on something that is important to me in a philosophical sense. Of _course_ it doesn't represent corruption to them, they aren't thinking about the implications of asking a god to fix one person. They don't think it through at all, I don't think. They just stop thinking at the point of getting their street paved. And that is the troublesome part, corruption is such an integral part of their lives that they don't even consider the impact of paving streets based on bribes. It seems like a good system to them. They consider themselves to be good, moral people and it doesn't bother them a bit to have streets left unpaved due to lack of bribes. That's their system. The people donating to the PBA are often not thinking of their role in corruption, either. They tell thmeselves that they want to contribute to the widows and orphans. But they put the sticker on their car, right where a cop will see it as s/he walks to the window... subconsciously? It's a system that bothers me. It's not a good way to run a society, IMO. Police should NEVER give out stickers saying who is a supporter. It sends a message of corruption. Yet, it's their system. They think it's a good one. They think they're moral people, and they just don't think through the implications of the system.

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