lugotorix

With regards to Buddha being co-opted by Hinduism and made an avatar of Vishnu -- yes, they did consider him an incarnation of Vishnu, but they still rejected his teachings.
Supposedly, the asuras (jealous gods, or titans) had learned the secrets of the Vedas and were becoming as powerful as the devas (higher gods). Vishnu incarnated as Buddha and convinced the asuras to abandon the Vedas, after which they lost their power. Not exactly a glowing recommendation of the Buddhadharma, eh?
It's a bit like what happened to Jesus -- he became an object of worship and his radical teachings were mostly forgotten. Thank goodness the Buddha's teachings had spread to other countries by that time.

lugotorix

karthik

Of course its the Meenakshi temple. If you need more info please refer to "Origin of Shaivism and its History in the Tamil Land, R. Subramaniyam". I am sure he is not a liberal, commie nutcase.

The pandya king Nedunchadayan Paraanthagan for one destruyed the monastries in and around Madurai. If you are asking what the Jain (or samanars in Tamil) were doing in Madurai it happens to be a fact that Jains were pioneers in Tamil Literature composing 2 of the 5 great epics in Tamil and Madurai happened to be the seat of Tamil sanghams (conventions).

In the North of Taml Nadu Jains were harassed by Mahendra Varma pallavan (an ex-jain)

Sattwic

Kartik, let us not sidetrack this thread... but some observations.
Well, Madurai of today is NOT the seat of all Tamil Sangams.
1. The Mudhal Sangam was in the landmass 'Kumari' by the river 'Kanni'.. this land is lost... The 'Atlantis' of Tamils.. Thus the First Sangam was in Southern Madurai.
2. This Samgam shifted to Kabaadapuram by the river 'Kumari', South of Kanyakumari.. and became the Idai Sangam.. the second 'Atlantis' of Tamils, again lost now.. Tholkappiyam was composed at this period
3. The Present Madurai was founded by Pandiyan kings .. the Kadai Sangam.. compositions Ettuththogai and Paththupaatu written.. also Shiva's Thiruvilayaadals, Pathinen Kizh Kanakku composed. THis period was the pinnacle of Tamil Sangam literature glory.

Jains in Madurai figure only in the 4th untill 7th centuries when they had present Madurai under their control. 'Aym Perum and Aym Sirum Kaapiyam' were composed under a DIFFERENT Sangam.. called as 'Vajra Nandhi Tamil Sangam'.. which is NOT a traditional Sangam and is not in anyway the fourth Sangam.

Therefore Jains were NOT 'pioneers' in Tamil Literature, and Present day Madurai was only the seat of the third Sangam.

Coming to Madurai Meenakshi Temple: I think you read about those 'inscriptions' from some Internet site. Actually the Maha Mandapa of the temple and the mandapas around the Sacred Golden-Lily Tank have some paintings dipicting the struggle of Saivites like ThiruJnayaSambhandhar (or Thiruganasambandhar) against Jains. These struggles were philosophical competitions which were standard in India.. (Just as Sankara, Ramanuja, Madhava, etc).. Manin Ner vizhi poem of Gnanasambhandhar in a contest against the Jains conducted by Queen Mangayarkarashi.., second contest when Gnanasambhandar wrote 'Kaltu Maavathurithuri', and when jains set fire to Gnanasambhandar's house after their defeat two times, the song 'Sayyane Thiru Alavay Meciya' was wrote.

As for sacking of Jain monastries, it is true that the Jain CLERGY had control of the city since the Kalabhras.. and had ruled it de facto. Both Vaishnavite rulers who took over power as well as Shaivite rulers who subsequently ruled Madura and surroundings after defeating the Jains, strived to drive them out.

The Yaanai hills have innumerable caves which were used by Jains as retreats. It was political struggle that caused the exit of Jains from the Madurai Area. Some persecution of Jains is well documented, but 'killing of 9000' is not one of them; Perhaps there was more, or maybe it was an exaggeration, we won't know, but the ground reality is that Jainism was not wiped from Tamil Nadu by Killing, but by loss of royal patronage.

In 730 AD, there was a university exclusively for women, maybe the very first in the world at Vedal in Thiruvannamalai.. it decayed into non existence because lessening patronage and attendance... the scholars migrated and got dissolved, while the lay people, converted into either Saivism or Vaishnavism.

During 7th century, most conflicts in the area had religions contonations since the Kings partonised and practised one religion or school and protected it. This caused political enemies to sack their opponents' temples and palaces alike as a symbol of victory rather than religions persecution.
in Thirupparaniumdram, 8km from madurai, recent excavations have revealed three whole temples, one of which is Jain. The Subramanian Temple here is one of the Arupadai Veedus.. and the Jain temple nearby recently excavated shows no sign of destruction, but decay because of no use. Clearly persecution was not in any way comparable even in any levels to those of Islamic invasions.

It would be only to confuse and delittle the damages of Islamic invasions and destructions of Islamic invaders of wholesale slaughter and sacking of Hindu/BUddhist/Jain temples that sometimes Leftists and Islamist Apologetics as well as Dravidian Supremacists etc bring up Jain Persecution in Tamil Nadu.

Seraphim

1. The Mudhal Sangam was in the landmass 'Kumari' by the river 'Kanni'.. this land is lost... The 'Atlantis' of Tamils..
.
2. This Samgam shifted to Kabaadapuram by the river 'Kumari', South of Kanyakumari.. and became the Idai Sangam.. the second 'Atlantis' of Tamils, again lost now..

My question : Lost? What exactly did you mean by "Lost"?

Thank You.

Sattwic

Seraphim, Hi!
Tamil oral Traditions maintain that the earliest land of tamils was a lost continent called 'Kumarikhandam'. A Legend of this continent being swallowed by the ocean can still be traced in tamil folklore and ancient literature.

The Sangam or Academy existed for ten thousand years. Its seat or capital was moved thrice because of rising sea level... deluges forced the shifting of this capital.
Thus the First and Second Sangam seats are lost for ever submerged under the sea, while the literature produced at this Sangams still survive.

Seraphim

Hello.

Tamil oral Traditions maintain that the earliest land of tamils was a lost continent called 'Kumarikhandam'. A Legend of this continent being swallowed by the ocean can still be traced in tamil folklore and ancient literature.

My reply : Thanks for the reply.

I had heard about some excavation outside Goa about some sunken city or something. Is that it?
I thought it was related to Dwarka of Mahabratha. A whole continent or just a city got swallowed by the sea?

Sattwic

Seraphim, the submerged land was large and huge in area, not just cities...

There are many excavations happening now, and most prehistoric Indian sites like the Saraswati river, Dwarka, etc are slowly emerging into hard facts.

The Tamil 'Atlantis' was to the south of the Indian Sub COntinent.. maybe where Maldives is today.

Read this BBC report on new excavation of a city near Madras/Chennai that is atleast 5000 years old

The Official Excavation site is Here, with photographs of the underwater city

Seraphim

Seraphim, the submerged land was large and huge in area, not just cities...

There are many excavations happening now, and most prehistoric Indian sites like the Saraswati river, Dwarka, etc are slowly emerging into hard facts.

My reply : OK ... hmmm ... someone lost a river .... only happens in India, which is why I like that country so much.
Thanks for the link, going to read it later since I have only have a small detail of the excavations.

The Tamil 'Atlantis' was to the south of the Indian Sub COntinent.. maybe where Maldives is today.

My reply : This is interesting. I remember something about possible sites of Atlantis as stated by someone and there was three - Bermuda region (where the Triangle is), outside Meditaranean (wrong word here) sea where it meets Altantic ocean and Hindi Ocean. I wonder if legend of Altantis has any connection with this Indian continent as well.

Sattwic

S, not Plato's Atlantis.. but since the world geography has changed so much over time that too after the last Ice Age; many places that were inhabitated once are now underwater and new islands have emerged, etc.. it is not a great thing that most primitive people all have some sort of 'Flood' traditions..

So Tamils have also have their own version of their land submerged and plently of literary proofs to back it up. BUt Tamils don't claim to any spectacular or 'Advanced civilization' like that of Atlantis, only that their land was lost to the sea and they had to move.. nothing romantic like Atlantis.. just ordinary migration.

Seraphim

I always thought Dwarka was the only place submerged by the sea. How many are there?

Also, I had see the map which was provided before and the area where this "continent" supposed to be is almost northwest region - somewhere around Rajput and northside of Pakistan (correct me if I'm wrong).
Am I to persume that India was cut off from the Middle East section by some sort of sea last time or there was a continent linking that section of place to area around Island of Magascar?