Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by Jat
That is because most Israelis are deluded when it comes to this.

You think the people of any country would just up and leave willingly?

This is mainly because the whites treated the blacks better than the Israelis are treating the Palestinians in comparison.

??? Blacks in the border regions of SA were normally shot on sight as suspected terrorists.

And the Palestinians are still convenient targets for the Israelis.

Note that when they quit bombing, Israel quits shooting.

They have said they want to drive the Jews into the sea. That sounds like flee or die to me.

Much of this the Israelis had brought on themself.

They brought their existence upon themselves? Because that's the root of it, everything else is merely excuses.

Ion

My approach to this:
is different, and is in line with U.N..

Israel should exist where it is now, within the borders recognized for Israel by the U.N..

It's a good idea that Israel exists now, so that Jewish people -who historically were attacked a lot- are practically sheltered under their state.

Israel should stay within the U.N. recognized borders, without invasionist settlements outside of its U.N. borders (contrary to now Prime Minister Sharon's policy), and should deal with the challenge of its recognition by Arabs, by asserting Israel from inside Israeli borders.

Jat

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel

You think the people of any country would just up and leave willingly?

Gandhi did it.

??? Blacks in the border regions of SA were normally shot on sight as suspected terrorists.

How often did the whites go into the townships to level homes and the like? I didn't say that treated them kindly.

Note that when they quit bombing, Israel quits shooting.

Is that bullets or missiles? The last few assassination attacks say otherwise.

They brought their existence upon themselves? Because that's the root of it, everything else is merely excuses.

Their policies brought it on them. Bulldozing the homes of "suspected" terrorists is one such policy which has made things far worse. The Settlements are another.

Jat

Safe? They are hardly safe. In fact they are worse off in many respects. They live in an armed camp which is little more than a prison, or large getto. A gilded cage is still a cage.

Ion

Are you speaking here about Israel controlling Palestinian areas, like Jenin?

I am against Israel controlling Palestinian areas, which is what I just posted:

.) Sharon (Isr) wants to grab more Palestinian land now, for later recognition on behalf of Israel;

.) I think that Israel should defend itself against Arab non-recognition, from within Israel borders as recognized by U.N..

Sauron

In one breath you admit that they aren't monolithic, and in the next breath you try to paint them all as monolithic.

Short answer: no, they don't. There are so many different groups over there, that trying to say that "all the terrorist leaders want xyz" doesn't work.

Oh, I must not have seen the shift in topic - are we talking about Israelis now?

Sauron

Sheesh. Zionist paranoia. Someone get me a crying towel, quick.

The fact that someone questions the legal/historical basis for Israel doesn't make them an advocate for a new holocaust. You present an outrageous false dichotomy - did you really think it would work?

And the fact that you tried to paint Jat in such an absurd fashion ("you want the holocaust") suggests that you've gone off the deep end. That's what you get from trying to survive on a solitary diet of Israeli propaganda.

Sauron

What?

And deprive the apologists for zionism of their ultimate sympathy card?

That would force them to actually frame an argument based on history and ethics. They're too clever to fight on a battlefield where they know they cannot win.

sorry, Rick - but Loren's infinite excuses are wearing thin and tiresome....

sphinx wui

Sauron wrote,

Sheesh. Zionist paranoia. Someone get me a crying towel, quick.
The fact that someone questions the legal/historical basis for Israel doesn't make them an advocate for a new holocaust. You present an outrageous false dichotomy - did you really think it would work?

And the fact that you tried to paint Jat in such an absurd fashion ("you want the holocaust") suggests that you've gone off the deep end. That's what you get from trying to survive on a solitary diet of Israeli propaganda.

And wrote,

What?

And deprive the apologists for zionism of their ultimate sympathy card?

That would force them to actually frame an argument based on history and ethics. They're too clever to fight on a battlefield where they know they cannot win.

sorry, Rick - but Loren's infinite excuses are wearing thin and tiresome....



What you are writing is not politics any more, it is poetry, music and nothing but the truth.
You rock sauron.

Best regards

Omar

Loren Pechtel

He wants to see Israel gone. I have a hard time picturing that ending up as anything other than another holocaust. The terrorists would run rampant killing the Jews they could get their hands on.
The PA admits that even now trying to do anything about the terrorists would mean civil war. After a major success like that, would they have a chance of stopping the ethnic cleansing?