Radorth

To an extent, yes, we don't know. But a true testimony is very convincing and pretty hard to fake. You don't give me much to go on except a claim of sincerity and a litany of your "good works." Perhaps you are an exception which I acknowledge is possible.

Please tell it to us. I will give you a fair hearig. But do not ask me to just take your assertions by faith.

This sounds like "I did everything right but God didn't." (An assertion we often hear). Perhaps he's the kind of God who saves us in spite of our good works, and he waits on the sidelines until you to see that. The kind of God who wants you to have a better life than you yourself think he does. Who lets you "fool" yourself as long as you don't really know him as he is, because you really give him no other choice.

People who are sincere and truly open-hearted will be saved and will know it when they trust that it is God alone "who wills and works in you the things that please him." I'll admit no one "feels" saved all the time, but I think that is because they think they have to do something to maintain it. As Nee said "God knows I am the incarnation of weakness. The trouble is, I do not know it." When you learn that, you "feel" saved all the time. (By saying this I'm not discounting a conversion experience which indicates one was actually saved).

Let me ask. Which of those things Paul lists "the works of the flesh" do you think is not clearly wrong? If indeed you find them wrong, then perhaps you do have a "new nature" and for some reason never felt that you did.

Rad

Amos

Do you realize that you now agree that the the others are not saved either?

Let me suggest to you that it is relatively easy to get born again because many are called. The problem is that out of the many called only a few are chosen. You were called to enter the race which now means that few will finish the race. To complete the race Catholic baptism is needed and that is why the Catholic church holds that the fullness of salvation is reserved for Catholics only.

Radorth

You know Amos, you might occasionally favor us with a comment on the scripture itself, such as Jesus' word to Nicodemus. Some of us "scheming" Protestants really do try hard to understand you, but you come up with so many off-the-wall comments, sans ANY scripture, that even the most sincere person would have trouble grasping your meaning.

Brother Rad

beth

You are wrong. I loved God. I worshipped Him with all of my heart. I was saved. I know I was, but I never felt the assurance of it. All my life, since hearing it from the preacher's pulpit, I knew I was destined for hell. If God had truly loved me, He would have let me feel His love. I cried out to Him desperately so many times. I asked him to change my heart. I even told Him I would be willing to be a martyr for Him. I loved Him that much. He isn't there.

Malcolm

Radorth, I don't think there is a lot of point in my putting down my testimony again (it is in the "atheist's testimony thread if you want to look it up). The point is not whether I can convince you that I was "saved" or not. No matter what I say, or how I blow my own trumpet, anyone will be able to say that I was not being really genuinely sincere no matter it may have appeared to be. It cannot be proved either way.

I think it IS easy to fake a good testimony - especially when you are convinced of the truth of it yourself. My point is that I really do believe that I am an honest person. I was as sincere as I believe it is possible to be in my faith and that was confirmed by virtually everyone who knew me. I even used exactly the same arguments that you are using against people I knew who "backslid", and I prayed for them too. And yet the feeling that I was fooling myself grew and grew until, on close - very close, detailed and long - examination, I could no longer convince myself that God exists. Unfortunately you are still a Christian, and therefore you cannot see the other side of the argument. What I object to is the heaping of guilt upon people like BlondeGoddess who is sincerely trying to make her way through a very difficult time of life. By all means encourage her, but don't try to tell her, or me, that we were never saved. That is extreme arrogance.

Malcolm

Stephen T-B

Here we go again: “You don’t believe in God because you don’t want to.”
“You don’t see the evidence of God because you don’t want to.”
“You’ve stopped believing in God because you never did believe in God.”
“You aren’t saved because you never were saved.”
“You’ve stopped being a Christian because you never were a Christian.”
What does the Invisible Pink Unicorn say to all this?
She says - and I have it on the best authority because she came to me and whispered it in my ear - “I am the Invisible Pink Unicorn, and if you believe in me, you will know that I am not only Invisible, but also Pink.”
You may not immediately see the relevance of that, but I assure you, it has as much relevance as all the get-out clauses above.

Thieving Magpie

Absurd. True faith brushes all doubt aside. It can be difficult to have 'true faith' in something such as Christianity, but if you really were as 'Christian' as the best, then though you may doubt, you will always find your way back to it.

God bless the Invisible Pink Unicorn!

beth

Well then, once saved always saved, right. No one knows what I had experienced, so do not presume to say that you do. I was a Christian. A true Christian, but I am burned out on Christianity. I do think that Christ is a beautiful example. He might even be God, I dunno. But why, pray tell if he is, doesn't he intervene?

Since you, Christians, say I'm wrong please pray for me. Pray very hard because I don't want to make the wrong choice. Thank you.

Radorth

I'm not heaping guilt on anybody, and the fact that you see it that way tells me you never understoood the Gospel at all, nor did you understand anything I said. In fact I said that if she feels guilty, she ought not to, the Bible doesn't tell her to, and if that is what she is hearing, to get away from it. That statement, especially, tells me that you completely misread me and my motives, and that you don't believe anything I say because you don't want to. Meanwhile you patronizingly say "I was just like you and you're blind."

That is just as arrogant as anything I am accused of, I'm sure. As usual you are doing the very thing you find in me. (See Romans)

Rad

HelenM

Why do you doubt it?

Anyway, I suppose the atheists who posted their testimonies would agree with you since they don't believe in 'rebirth by the Holy Spirit'

Helen