Ryanfire

Hypothesis:
If there was a quantum fluctuation, that then means there could be a multiverse out there.
Our universe would be one wave of that fluctuation.

Definition
Fluctation: To cause to rise and fall or vary irregularly

What then would cause the quantum to fluctuate?


I'm just hypothesizing that there has to be a 1 before existence happened.
How does 1 come from zero, nil. I'm also taking into account the big bang theory.
It was a big ball of energy if I'm not mistaken, but what existed before that, what was
time and space then? That 1 could be a god/deity, but then, how was it created or how does it exist? Is this what you're getting at Mageth?

Is anybody willing to postulate that there was nothing before the big bang? or was there something before it?

Thoughts from what Jobar wrote:
What would make the universe create itself?
I don't think it felt lonely being nothing

If it's eternal, then how did it become that way? Did the universe decide to
live/exist/*enter like terms here* forever, and if so, why?

[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Ryanfire ]</p>

stewbster

Is anybody willing to postulate that there was nothing before the big bang?

yes.
another postulate comeing from the taoist concepts would hypothesize that everything (the tai chi) came from nothing (the Wu-Chi)

I'm just hypothesizing that there has to be a 1 before existence happened.
How does 1 come from zero, nil

well if a "1" is already there, existance has already begun. so you cannot have "existance" or "1" comeing from a "1" since things already exist. existance can only come from nothingness or "0." A "1" must be added.

of course i am assumeing that you are useing the binary system where 1 = yes or existance and 0 = no or nothingness. Is this true?

stu

Ryanfire

Correct. 1 = yes, 0 = no.

Existence must be equal to one
Nothing must be equal to zero

Hypothesis:
If there is 0, that being no time, no space, no matter, no gravity etc.. and existence(time, space, matter, gravity) equals 1, then the universal equation may be 0 + 1 = 1.

What then created the + 1? It also implies a forward motion, which could then be considered a "klck starter" as refered to from previous posts on this board.

By the law of conservation of energy:
the amount of energy remains constant and energy is neither created nor destroyed. Energy can be converted from one form to another (potential energy can be converted to kinetic energy) but the total energy within the domain remains fixed.

Then, what was before the big bang? If all of the energy in that ball was fixed, how did it explode into a universe(full of matter) such as ours? Was all of the matter in our universe contained in that ball of energy? What then makes such energy explode? An explosion could only happen from super heating in this case, what then made it super heat? Why only 118 elements? Seems like a small amount, yet.. are sufficient enough for existence, planets, and life. Intelligent life for that matter.

It just seems to me that something existed before our universal existence, and there is probably more out there then meets the eye.

Until we know what was before the big bang, we definately cannot know what the universe is exactly, or if there was a creator.

For that reason, humans have created a "god", but the problem is we have created god to be our image, because of our fear of the unknown, we just want limits to better suit ourselves, in a way it's a selfish way to live, why keep an open mind when you can make your own paradise? Fantasy and truth are what make existence fulfilling. Both religious and non-religious are looking for a solution, that can never be solved in my opinion. You can't hate man for it's stupidity, for it's his understanding that creates truth.

Religion is just a limit, Science is limited only as far as its proof.

Perhaps the world would be a much better place if we sought the truth and beauty of existence, rather than the lies and ugliness of mankind.

Now you tell me.. does a god grant eternal life to those that wish to understand and question life, or those who are just obedient to god's will and surrender to faith in a god. Life and existence would be too easy if we just had to believe in a god. Morals are only as good as one percieves them to be.

God does not limit man, man limits man.


-Ryan

[ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: Ryanfire ]</p>

stewbster

What then created the + 1? It also implies a forward motion, which could then be considered a "klck starter" as refered to from previous posts on this board.

well just because there is a forward motion that does not also imply that it is linear. you also assume that the 1 must have been "created." since you assume that the universe was created. the 1 could just be the state the universe was always in, just being.

By the law of conservation of energy:
the amount of energy remains constant and energy is neither created nor destroyed. Energy can be converted from one form to another (potential energy can be converted to kinetic energy) but the total energy within the domain remains fixed.

ok.... so why are you saying we can violate that principle to create the energy needed to "jump start" the universe?

Then, what was before the big bang?

was there a big bang? sure the temperture of the universe and background radiation may have been caused by a big bang but there could be another possability. such as our universe always just being 1.

why keep an open mind when you can make your own paradise?

like christianity???

does a god grant eternal life to those that wish to understand and question life, or those who are just obedient to god's will and surrender to faith in a god

is god real?

[/b]man limits man[/b]

with organized religion

Ryanfire

stewster: You've made some good points.

Makes me wonder why a universe could or would just exist.

Taken from <a href="http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.html" target="_blank">http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.html</a>
Representation of the universe according to inflationary cosmology.
The Big Bang Theory is the dominant scientific theory about the origin of the universe. According to the big bang, the universe was created sometime between 10 billion and 20 billion years ago from a cosmic explosion that hurled matter and in all directions.
The big bang was initially suggested because it explains why distant galaxies are traveling away from us at great speeds. The theory also predicts the existence of cosmic background radiation (the glow left over from the explosion itself). The Big Bang Theory received its strongest confirmation when this radiation was discovered in 1964 by Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, who later won the Nobel Prize for this discovery.

Cosmic fingerprints

Well, if galaxies are traveling away from us, what was their starting point? Or did they have one?

It seems for the most part, humans want answers, and religious people take the easy way out and claim a god did everything. That to me is the lazyness of mankind. The unknown is not answered by faith in a god, but in our ability to explore and discover truth, asking for proof isn't unreasonable, it's the sane thing to do. Ask a religious person why the sun is hot, and they'll say god likes to be warm, as absurd that answer is, it's just about as reasonable as any of the answers they provide to the intellectual people of the world. In the end, the truth sets us free.

The bible does not offer any universal answers, as it only pertains to life here on earth. haha I wonder if a god would care if I sinned on the planet dxoiugtn in the alpha quadrant 1011. Religion was designed to control the people of the earth, be good and moral according to what others have dictated as being good and moral, or pay the price! Make the people fear in a big bad boogey man and they will no doubtedly obey as we command! Playing on the human weakness, fear.

Another hypothesis I have is that we were put here by a "humanoid race", and jesus could be of that race(an alien). And perhaps religion was introduced to police the world. How do you get humans to behave? well... scare the shit out of them and introduce a boogey man or "god" if you will It's quite easy to play on the human mind. Psychology anyone?
The bible says Jesus will come back... and if he does.. well.. he'll be wanting to see how we progressed, and he'll take the people worthy with him... on his space ship haha
Perhaps their race has been able to make themselves immortal, with the advancement of science and engineering of course. I whole heartly believe we can do it as well, we know the human genome sequence.. we're experimenting with growing human parts, cloning, what's next?

So as for "does a creator equal god", Anybody or thing that has given me life, I thank and love them for it, but I do not worship them for it, as life is a gift for me to love and appreciate. When we do nice things for others, do we always expect something great in return? no. It makes us happy to see them happy. We don't need a god, we need each other to find our place in this universe. When we come to terms with that, then we'll see some progression!

I know for me it's the pursuit of truth that makes life tolerable, not faith in a concept of rules.

joedad

As others have already stated, the use of the word "the" in that three-letter phrase tends to direct the thinking the way Biblicists want it to be directed.

FWIW I prefer, "In a beginning a god...."

Much more mythical and therefore understandable, and much less triumphalistic.

And worth maybe two cents....

joe

stewbster

Makes me wonder why a universe could or would just exist.

well it(the universe) could just be and that is that.

you would be surprised at how many people can't grasp such a simlpe concept as existance without something "divine" or eternal slipping in

Well, if galaxies are traveling away from us, what was their starting point? Or did they have one?

is the universe infinate?

stu

Vic

"Nothing comes from nothing,
Nothing ever could ...
So somewhere in my youth
I must've done something good." - Sound of Music.

It is fair game to criticize a "creator".
It is fair game to criticize a "big bang".
It is fair game to disbelieve in a god.
It is fair game to disbelieve in a self creating universe and
It is fair game to accept that which one feels more confortable with. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Ryanfire

I suppose..

but the board is played on science.
Religion are the pieces which try to discount the board on which they play.

Good analogy? perhaps...

stewbster

well what is nothing?

the defintion that we all are working off of is "a lack of something," namely matter.

most theists insist that matter can't come from nowhere. but i think there is plenty we do not fully know about the behavior of matter and anti-matter. but i think the evidence points that our defentions of matter need to be clarified.

stu