Silent Acorns

Or, to put it another way:

Suppose I, Silent Acorns, was to offer you all a place in paradise where you can live for eternity, would your natural response to this wonderful news be to worship me and follow any advice offered by me?

If not, why not? Because you have no reason to believe that I can live up to my promise? If so, why do you believe Jesus/God will? Because he has a book about him?

AmbiguousUbiquity

Nope. I'd also like to mention that I would say I live life as a christian, without the god parts, of course. I'm a good person overall. Plus, what would be the point of being Christian if I was saved anyway? No worries. If most people accepted this belief, I would imagine lack of respect in the bible by people who called themselves christian. There would be no reason to live life that way, if you were saved anyway.

Hey Silent Acorns, would this place be somewhere in the South Pacific? If so, I got my tape recorder ready to write a biography. If that's all it takes, of course.

Lauren

Jobar

This is called 'universalism' and is centuries old. The Unitarian-Universalist Church (which allows atheists to join) believes this.

Of course, all the above comments still apply.

Wayne Delia

I pretty much became an atheist after reading Thomas Paine's The Age of Reason while rehearsing with a community choral group in a Unitarian Universalist church, which had the book in its library. There were some rehearsals in which I didn't sing a note because I was so engrossed in the book.

WMD

thebeave

My Uncle Cletus who live in the Appalachians done tol' me once that when ya see 'possums in groups of three, then there's a mighty fierce hurricane acoming in the next 48 hours.

My Uncle Cletus is purty dang smart MOST of the time, but I's done got my suspciousons 'bout the 'possum story. I'm a fixin' to think that just 'cause someone say sumthing, that don't make it a fact. Even my friend Goober thinks that and he's dumber than a jug 'o granny's whisky!!

Infidelettante

"And he is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only but for the sins of the whole world." 1 John,2:2

The cross paid for the sins of mankind. All of them. For every one. It is not sin that sends you to hell but your failure to accept the righteousness of God which allows you into Heaven.

Is that about it Wispers? I am glad to hear that Hell is not as awful a place as I had feared. What other doctrines do you reject or remodel to make your brand of Christianity more palatable? Have you ever considered that had your God but only stirred himself to created a forth realm there would be no need for putting humans in hell. God could stay in his Heaven. The saints would no doubt have time shares in Heaven and The New Earth and would divide their time between them. Satan and his minions of course go to Hell.

As it now stands, and please correct me if I am wrong in anything, the lost are assigned to Hell because there is just nowhere else to put them. Is that not at the core of the Hell problem, that if there were a forth place to put all the ‘non-accepters’ they would be safely separated from God and his precious righteousness yet not be tortured for all eternity.

Perhaps you and some of your fellow Christians could begin a ‘Pray In’ or some such to convince your God to speak into existence a realm for the poor unfortunates who can not bring themselves to accept his mythology. I should think it not beyond his abilities. A day of rest would be in order. We understand he has not spoken anything in a very long time. Could you get back to me on this soon? I will light a candle or two on my altar to further the cause.

JT

EGGO

So does this mean Hell hasn't been getting any members since he died?

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

Why? We get it regardless, and doing so removes pleasures from life.

If that is true, then Christianity is a sham.

Bruce McAuley

Hi Folks
I'm a newby here, but this sounds like my kind of discussion board. I live in Eastern Washington, and we have a lot of Fundy christians around here, but when push comes to shove, all the christians cannot stand against the Three Magic Words: You are Saved. The whole christian faith stands on the two lies of christianity: 1. You must believe in Jesus to be saved and 2. you won't get into Heaven unless you do. The first is a condition, and the second is a prophesy.
BUT
The love of the Great Spirit, for which I have no evidence since I'm a mystic, is NOT conditional, and "salvation" consequently is not conditional on belief in Jebus, or Mohammed, or anyone else.
All religions have their dogma and paperwork to support their conditions(the Koran says"There is no god but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet"), but they HAVE to have that to get converts, which is how the religion grows.
Personally, I must be an infidel to most of the organized religions in the world, because I don't believe ANY of the paperwork. I know I'm saved, and that's all I need to know. You are saved also, but not by Christ or Mohammed, that's for sure. If you don't find the Great Spirit in your heart, you sure won't find it in a religion or a building.
Thanks for reading

Bruce

Relative Newcomer

The Bible is specific on this, actually, and the language indicates quite the opposite of what the Pastor believes. Here are just a few of the prolific, pertinent verses:

"that whoever believes many in Him have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:15-18

In just three verses it says three times that you have to actually believe in "Him" to be saved, to have eternal life.

"Jesus said to them, 'if you were blind, you would have no sin, but since you say, 'we see,' your sin remains.'" John 9:41

"that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." Romans 10: 9, 10
"for 'Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.'" Romans 10: 13

You have to actually believe in your heart, and further you have to go around talking about it. THEN you will be saved and go to heaven.

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers shall inherit the kingdom of God." ICorinthians 6: 9, 10

These "evil" people are not going to heaven. Yeah, Jesus died for them, yeah they can go to heaven if they believe in that salvation fairy tale, but they have to also change their "evil" ways.


"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?" IICorinthians 6: 14,15

There is a distinction throughout the New Testament between believers and non-believers. Between "evildoers" and righteous people. In fact, isn't evangelization the thrust of the New Testament?

Really, what is the point of evangelizing if everyone is saved anyway? I see the point to having an organized church where people can have fellowship, spiritual guidance (or misguidance, as the case may be), etc. But there is no point in evangelizing, really if we are all automatically saved.


Quite the opposite!!
What is the point of being "holy"? We are forgiven no matter what we do, so we might as well be debaucherous.
I know that faith is an intangible, irrational thing. That's fine. But to proffer a religious inanity such as this, it just defies common sense, really.

Lastly, i would say that, logically, I would FIRST have to believe in the existence of a deity before i believed in whether or not the deity was accepting of me, was saving me or sending me to hell or doing anything at all, for that matter.

Angela (Relative Newcomer's wife)