Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jamie_L · 12-09-2002, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ManM:
Have you considered that we might be in the process of reaching this goal?

That's reasonable in general, but it doesn't mesh with the notion that individuals who falter along the way are to be held accountable. Which is the typical Christian teaching.

It also seems to make little sense for an omnipotent God to use a long, painful process to achieve this end when he could just will the end into being.

Jamie

Philosoft · 12-09-2002, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ManM:
<strong>

Have you considered that we might be in the process of reaching this goal? [free will without evil]</strong>

This is just bizarre reasoning. By this logic, all the brutality and suffering of the last howevermanythousand years of humanity has been necessary so that a select cohort can acheive some arbitrary goal set by a cosmic scientist. Thus, you and I are just, well, transitional forms in the teleological morass that has been human history.

ManM · 12-10-2002, 07:53 AM

Jamie_L,

Quote:

That's reasonable in general, but it doesn't mesh with the notion that individuals who falter along the way are to be held accountable. Which is the typical Christian teaching.

My understanding is not similar to the teachings of Western Christianity.

Quote:

It also seems to make little sense for an omnipotent God to use a long, painful process to achieve this end when he could just will the end into being.

Apparently, something is limiting God. I think the entire idea of omnipotence needs rethinking. For one, nothing could oppose the will of an omnipotent God. Where does that leave free will?

Philosoft,

Quote:

By this logic, all the brutality and suffering of the last howevermanythousand years of humanity has been necessary so that a select cohort can acheive some arbitrary goal set by a cosmic scientist. Thus, you and I are just, well, transitional forms in the teleological morass that has been human history.

Select cohort? Arbitrary goal? Transitional forms? I'm not quite sure where you are coming from. It is my understanding that we will all be a part of the age to come.

Jamie_L · 12-10-2002, 08:40 AM

ManM,

While I may not believe as you do, you at least seem to have a system of beliefs that is more logically consistent than that to which most Western Christians cling.

Oddly enough, before I became an atheist, this was the kind of belief system I began to develop on my own - to answer these kinds of questions. Which is not to say you are on that path, but just an interesting personal comment.

Jamie

ManM · 12-10-2002, 10:02 AM

Jamie_L,
Well thanks, I take that as a compliment.

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12-10-2002, 08:40 AM	#34
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	ManM, While I may not believe as you do, you at least seem to have a system of beliefs that is more logically consistent than that to which most Western Christians cling. Oddly enough, before I became an atheist, this was the kind of belief system I began to develop on my own - to answer these kinds of questions. Which is not to say you are on that path, but just an interesting personal comment. Jamie

12-10-2002, 10:02 AM	#35
ManM Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: NW Florida, USA Posts: 1,279	Jamie_L, Well thanks, I take that as a compliment.

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