yguy

Not just no - hell no. I haven't asked for the studies yet. I'm asking how the conclusions of those studies as represented by you here contradict the claim in question.

dk

Fr Andrew actually presented a much more damning criteria, he said homosexuality was based on gender. That being the case then every man that sexually molests a little boy is a homosexual i.e. acting from a same sex attraction. Such a criteria makes 100% of the men that sexually molest little boys homosexuals. This still doesn't address why women are rarely pedophiles, and makes anyone against child sexual abuse a pedophobe.

My personal view is that Freud's egotism was fatally flawed from the beginning. Homosexuality properly understood is a fetish associated with gender confusion. Egotism projects a scheme that places a blind individual a the center of a moral universe isolated from human intimacy. By focusing irrationally upon the individual Frued errantly makes the individual the source of moral rectitude. Its truly ironic that moral egotism fashioned as an explaination for psychology has become an agent for human alienation, dehumanization and misunderstanding.

yguy

Why do you care whether I go away or not? Doesn't everyone here have access to the ignore feature?

Dr Rick

The issue is credibility, that's all; It doesn't matter what you post or if you don't, because the internet is open to anyone, bullshitter or not.

Here's what my challenge comes down to: I'll back up what I post, but you can't.

yguy

If that's what I am, I'm digging my own grave. Why would you have a problem with that?

Then I await your explanation of how any of the conclusions
you posted - stipulating for the sake of argument that the data support them - contradict the statement in question.

Dr Rick

Old habits die hard

Back-up what you claim, and challenge me to do the same.

miss djax

so yguy,

lets start with the Crimes Against Children Resource center

1. David Finkelhor, director of the Crimes Against Children Research Center http://www.unh.edu/news/Mar02/em_20020304ccrc.html
Adults who commit violent crimes against children and end up in prison are very different from other imprisoned criminals, according to a new study by researchers at the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center, published today by the U.S. Department of Justice.
According to the report, "Offenders Incarcerated for Crimes Against Juveniles," offenders against children and youth are mostly white men, over the age of 30 and have been married at some time. Two-thirds are sex offenders and the vast majority committed their crimes against a family member or an acquaintance.

2. Here's a link to an excellent article claiming pedophile priests are homosexual. Superbly footnoted. That I'm cutting/pasting. The evidence is clear :

Pedophiles find themselves attracted to children, gender is not part of the equation, so they are pansexual as opposed to heterosexual or homosexual.

http://www.iglss.org/media/files/angles_62.pdf
NOTES
1 Grossman, C. L. (2002, June 12). Bishops resign; scandal widens. USA Today, p.1.
2 Cozzens, D. B. (2000). The changing face of the priesthood. Collegeville, MN: Liturgical
Press.
3 Fox, K. (2002, May 3). Gays resist link to abuse scandal. Washington Blade, p. 38.
4 Smith, R. (2002, May 3). Catholic reform groups blast gay scapegoating: Coalition to
issue statement saying gay priests aren’t to blame for current crisis. Washington Blade, p.
12; Monsignor: U.S. immorality and gays to blame for abuse, (2002, April 23). Daily
Herald; Vatican studies ways to weed out gay priests. (2002, March 29). Washington Blade,
p. 64 ; Grossman, C. L. (2002, April 25). Hot under the collar: Gay Catholics angry, say
they’ve been singled out. USA Today, 9D; Fox, K. (2002, May 3). Gays resist link to abuse
scandal. Washington Blade, p. 38. See also, Statement of the Catholic Medial Association
“Homosexuality and Hope,” http://www.cathmed.org/
5 See Cozzens, note 2.
6 Nugent, R. (1998, January/March). Catholic Priests and sexual misconduct. Vocations
and Prayer, 4-9. p. 8.
7 Douglas-Brown, L. (2002, April 5). Ephebophilia: It’s not pedophilia and it’s not homosexuality,
but it’s wreaking havoc in the Catholic priesthood and raising issues for the gay
rights movement. Washington Blade, pp. 1,23-24; Sorensen, I. (2002, April 26). Anti-gay
homily leads to rare Catholic reversal: Archdiocese retracts monsignor’s attempt to blame
scandal on ‘disorder’ of homosexuality. Washington Blade, p. 24.
8 Smith, R. (2002, April 26). Homosexual atmosphere blamed by Catholic leaders: US
Cardinals meet with pope on sex abuse scandal, but blame heaped on gay priests.
Washington Blade, pp. 1, 24.
9 Henneberger, M & Sterngold, J. (2002, April 19). Vatican meeting on abuse issue is set to
confront thorny topics. New York Times.
10 Helminiak, D. (2002, March 29). Repressed gay priests at the heart of scandal.
Washington Blade, p. 32
11 Lieblich, J. (2002, April 24). ‘An appalling sin,’ pope says: Vatican session with cardinals
on sex abuse also opens debate on homosexuality in priesthood, Chicago Tribune, p. 1.
12 See Nugent, note 6.
13 American Psychiatric Association. (2000). Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
Disorders (4th ed.-Text Revision). Washington DC: American Psychiatric Association.
14 Freund, K. (1965). Erotic preference in pedophilia. Behavioral Research and Theory, 3,
229-234, Freund,K. & Kuban, M. (1993). Deficient erotic gender differentiation in pedophilia:
A follow-up. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 22(6), 619-628.; Howell, K. (1979). Some
meaning of children for pedophiles (pp. 519-526).In M. Cook and G. Wilson (Eds.). Love
and Attraction, New York: Pergamon.; see also Ames, M. A., & Houston, D. A. (1990).
Legal, social, and biological definitions of pedophilia. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 19(4),
333-342.
15 Groth, A. N., & Gary, T. S. (1982). Heterosexuality, homosexuality, and pedophilia:
Sexual offenses against children and adult sexual orientation. In A.M. Scacco (Ed.), Male
rape: A casebook of sexual aggression (pp. 143-152). New York: AMS Press.
16 Jenny, C., Roesler, T. A., & Poyer, K. L. (1994). Are children at risk for sexual abuse by
homosexuals? Pediatrics, 94(1), 41-44.
17 McConaghy, N. (1998). Pedophilia: A review of the evidence. Australian and New
Zealand Journal of Psychiatry, 32(2) 252-265.
18 That is, it does not appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, published by the
American Psychiatric Association, the document used by mental health professionals to
label and describe symptoms of pathology.
19 See American Psychiatric Association, note 13.
20 Nugent, R. (2000, January-February). Helping seminarians live celibate chastity. Review
for Religious, 66-79.
21 See Nugent, note 20.
22 For an example of those uninformed, see Blanchard, R. & Dickey, R. (1998). Pubertal age
in homosexual and heterosexual sexual offenders against children, pubescents, and adults.
Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment, 10(4), 273-282. For an example of
confused non-scientists, see Reisman, J. A. (1999, March 26). The APA’s: Academic
Pedophile Advocates. Retrieved from:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky...pas_aca.shtml. For a
more detailed analysis and discussion of the material in this paragraph, see Stevenson,
M.R. (2000). Public policy, homosexuality, and the sexual coercion of children. Journal of
Psychology and Human Sexuality, 12(4), 1-19.
23 Laumann, E. O., Gagnon, J. H., Michael, R. T., & Michaels, S. (1994). The social organization
of sexuality: Sexual practices in the United States. Chicago: University of Chicago
Press.
24 Laumann, et al.
25 See Cozzens, note 2.
26 Plante, T. (1999). Bless me Father for I have sinned: Perspectives on sexual abuse committed
by Roman Catholic priests. Westport, CN: Greenwood.
27 Ripley, A. (2002, May 20). Inside The Church’s Closet: Gay priests talk about their hidden
lives, love of the church and fear of being scapegoated in the sex scandals. Time.
28 Barret, R. L., & Robinson, B. E. (1994). Gay dads. In A. E. Gottfried & A. W. Gottfried
(Eds.), Redefining families: Implications for children’s development (pp. 157-170). New
York: Plenum Press; Becker, J. V., Alpert, J. L., BigFoot, D. S., Bonner, B. L., Geddie, L. F.,
Henggeler, S. W., Kaufman, K. L., & Walker, C. E. (1995). Empirical research on children
abuse treatment: Report by the child abuse and neglect treatment working group, American
Psychological Association. Journal of Clinical Child Psychology, 24 (Suppl.), 23-46; Groth,
A. N., & Birnbaum, H. J. (1978). Adult sexual orientation and attraction to underage persons.
Archives of Sexual Behavior, 7 (3), 175-181; Groth, A. N. (1978). Patterns of sexual
6
assault against children and adolescents. In A. W. Burgess, A. N. Groth, L. L. Holmstrom, &
S. M. Sgroi, (Eds.), Sexual assault of children and adolescents (pp. 3-24). Lexington, MA:
Lexington Books; Herek, G. M. (1991). Myths about sexual orientation: A lawyer’s guide to
social science research. Law & Sexuality: A Review of Lesbian and Gay Legal Issues, 1,
133-172.; Jenny, C., Roesler, T. A., & Poyer, K. L. (1994). Are children at risk for sexual
abuse by homosexuals? Pediatrics, 94, 41-44; Patterson, C. J. (1997). Children of lesbian
and gay parents. In T. H. Ollendick & R. J. Prinz (eds.). Advances in Clinical Child
Psychology, 19, 235-282; Sarafino, E. P. (1979). An estimate of nation-wide incidence of
sexual offenses against children. Child Welfare, 58, 127-134.
29 Jenny, C. Roesler, T. A., & Poyer, K. L. (1994). Are children at risk for sexual abuse by
homosexuals? Pediatrics, 41(1), 41-44.
30 Glasser, M., Kolvin, I., Campbell, D., Glasser, A., Leitch, I. & Farrelly, S. (2001). Cycle of
child sexual abuse: Links between being a victim and becoming a perpetrator. British
Journal of Psychiatry, 179, 482-494. It may be useful to note that empirical research on this
issue is rare primarily because scholars already accept that there is no connection between
adult sexual orientation and child molestation so they devote their research efforts to unsettled
questions.
31 Based on results of a study conducted by G. J. McGlone at the California School of
Professional Psychology, Alliant University. As reported in Nugent, R. (2002, April/June).
Healthy celibate priests. Vocations and Prayer, 4-7.
32 See Plante, note 26. See also Daw, J. (2002, June). Can psychology help a church in
crises? Monitor on Psychology, 24-26; Sipe, A. W. R. (1990). A secret world: Sexuality and
the search for celibacy. New York: Brunner Mazel; Sipe, A. W. R. (1995). Sex, priests, and
power: Anatomy of a crisis. New York: Brunner Mazel.
33 Helminiak, D. (2002, March 29). Repressed gay priests at the heart of scandal.
Washington Blade, 32. Helminiak claims between 30 and 60% of priests are gay.
34 Nugent, R. (2002, April/June). Healthy celibate priests. Vocations and Prayer, 4-7.
35 See Plante, note 26; Sipe, Sex, priests, and power: Anatomy of a crisis, note 33.
36 Nugent, R. (2000, January-February). Helping seminarians live celibate chastity. Review
for Religious, 66-79. p.72.
37 Some research in this area also fails to distinguish incest from other forms of potentially
harmful childhood sexual experience. Although the relationship of the perpetrator to the victim
is undoubtedly relevant to the child’s subsequent well-being, this relationship is less
salient in the policy arena.
38 Martin, A. D. (1982). The minority question. et cetera. 39(1), 22-42., Martin, A. D. (1988).
The stigmatization of the gay or lesbian adolescent. In M. Schneider (Ed.), Often invisible:
Counseling gay and lesbian youth (pp. 59-69). Toronto: Central Toronto Youth Services;
Schneider, M. (1993). Educating the public about homosexuality. Annals of Sex Research, 6,
57-66.
39 Herek, G. M. (1991). Stigma, prejudice, and violence against lesbians and gay men. In J.
C. Gonsiorek & J. D. Weinrich (Eds.), Homosexuality: Research implications for public policy
(pp. 60-80). Newbury Park, CA: Sage.
40 Pratt, J. (1998). The rise and fall of homophobia and sexual psychopath legislation in
postwar society. Psychology, public policy, and law, 4(1/2), 25-49.; Wolfenden, J. (1957).
Report of the Committee on Homosexual Offences and Prostitution. London: Command 247.
41 Gonsiorek, J.C. (1991). The empirical basis for the demise of the illness model of homosexuality.
In J.C. Gonsiorek, & J. D. Weinrich (Eds.), Homosexuality: Research implications
for public policy (pp. 115-136). Newbury Park, CA: Sage; Herek, G. M. (1991). Myths about
sexual orientation: A lawyer’s guide to social science research. Law & Sexuality: A Review of
Lesbian and Gay Legal Issues, 1, 133-172.
42 Conger, J. (1975). Proceeding of the American Psychological Association, Incorporated,
for the year 1984: Minutes of the annual meeting of the Council of Representatives.
American Psychologist, 40, 621-653.
43 The American Psychiatric Association, the American Counseling Association, and
National Association of Social Workers, the American Psychoanalytic Association, and the
American Academy of Pediatrics have such policy statements. For further discussion of
these issues see Morris, J.F. & Hart, S. (2003) Defending claims about mental health. In.
M.R. Stevenson & J. Cogan (Eds). Advocating Equality for Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual
Americans. New York: Routledge.
44 Herek, G. (2002). Gender gaps in public opinion about lesbians and gay men. Public
Opinion Quarterly, 66(1), 40-66.

miss djax

Uh, no. You neglect the part of the equation where the pedophile is attracted to a CHILD, and not an adult. Homosexual orientation would mean that the pedophile would also be attracted to male adults. hardly the case. Pedophiles find themselves unable to perform with adults, castigated and castrated, so to speak.

Additionally, research indicates that there is a second and third link to causation of pedophiles. In addition to most abusers having been abused themselves, there is an indication there is adifference in terms of brain function due to injury. Thirdly, chromosomes differences..

Scientists aren't sure what causes pedophilia or why most pedophiles are men, but they have some intriguing clues.

An abnormality in the chromosomes is one plausible cause, says Johns Hopkins University psychiatrist Frederick Berlin. Patients with one type of abnormality have a high rate of pedophilia.

Brain injury also might trigger the disorder, says Berlin, because normal adults have developed pedophilia after suffering brain injuries in car accidents.

Pedophiles also are more likely than average to have suffered childhood sexual abuse, usually by a man. Abused girls may become sexually promiscuous, but they don't turn to children, says Berlin.

Molested boys, however, are more likely to "fixate" at an immature sexual level, like a broken CD player that keeps playing the first few notes over and over again.

Boys may notice sexual arousal more easily than girls because their penises become erect, "and that may sexualize the childhood experience for them in a way it doesn't for girls," says Kinsey Institute director John Bancroft. But sex with an adult makes them feel out of control, "and there's a pattern of reasserting control by turning to children when they're grown up," Bancroft speculates.

Men overall are vulnerable to many more sexual fetishes and disorders than women, with pedophilia just one more biology-based "way of going awry," he says.

There's been hardly any research into the causes, prevention or treatment of pedophilia, Berlin says. "We're at the point we were at with alcoholism a few decades ago, the 'bum in the gutter,' pre-Betty Ford Clinic stage where we see it only as a moral issue.

"It is a moral issue," he says, " but it's also a public health problem, and we need to do a lot more research if we're going to stop it."

from http://www.usatoday.com/news/2002-07...urch-gay_x.htm

yguy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr Rick
and challenge me to do the same. [QUOTE]

I already have. If you decline, and if no one else takes up the challenge, I will have reason to keep believing the statement in question. Your move.

miss djax

[QUOTE]Originally posted by yguy
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr Rick
and challenge me to do the same.

Quote:

I already have. If you decline, and if no one else takes up the challenge, I will have reason to keep believing the statement in question. Your move.

was your one quote from dr laura your only citation in this discussion?

just curious