Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ps418 · 12-15-2002, 05:09 AM

There are few good popular books on geology. Probably the closest analogue for Dawkins or Sagan in this field would be John McPhee. His book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0374518734/qid=1039961051/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/103-7389065-1655809?v=glance&s=books&n=507846" target="_blank">Annals of the Former World</a> is pretty good. Tjeerd van Andel's old book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521447550/qid=1039961167/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-7389065-1655809?v=glance&s=books&n=507846" target="_blank">New Views on an Old Planet</a> is midway between a popular and a textbook account. There was a great book I saw in a bookstore a while back which I thought would be a great introductio to geology, but I cant remember the name. It was profusely illustrated, was a large coffee table style book, and had the world "earth" in the title.

Artemus · 12-15-2002, 06:26 AM

PBS had a very good series I saw in about 1990 called "The Making of a Continent" about the geology of North America. The companion book seems to be available used at <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812910796/qid=1039965847/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-2983198-6471319?v=glance&s=books&n=507846" target="_blank">The Making of a Continent</a> . Hmmm...it was published in 1983 so may be a bit out of date, but I think it is an excellent read for the layperson.

LeftCoast · 12-15-2002, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thebeave:
One other thing that's kinda cool is localized "hot spots" that create islands. The Hawaiian Islands are such an example. In effect, there is an underground "hot spot" that spews hot lava and remains relatively stationary under the ocean floor, while the ocean floor above it moves rather quickly (in geologic time anyway) over it. Currently the Big Island of Hawaii is over the hot spot and is being added on to as we speak. The other islands were, in the not-too-distant past, over the hot spot, and later the spreading ocean floor "conveyed" them away from it. I guess the hot spot sorta turns itself off and on at will, otherwise it seems we would have one long skinny island instead of discrete blobs.

Actually, there is a new addition to the Hawaiian chain being formed now, but IIRC its top is still many thousands of feet below the surface of the Pacific. Also, I don’t think its so much that the hot-spot turns on and off rather as the sea floor moves and the old path for the magma is choked off, a new path must be found and eventually it is just easier for the magma to begin a new undersea volcano rather than starting side-vents or continuing to push through the old volcano.

lpetrich · 12-15-2002, 04:02 PM

So in effect, the hot spot's magma punches holes to escape through.

And that new Hawaiian volcano is called Loihi. it is off the southern coast of the Big Island.

It's underwater, but it is growing fast enough to reach the surface in the next several thousand years.

[ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]

lpetrich · 12-15-2002, 05:59 PM

I wish to note that Secular Pinoy himself is living on top of a subduction zone. The Philippine Plate is going under the Eurasian Plate -- which contains most of the Philippine islands; here's <a href="http://geology.er.usgs.gov/eastern/plates.html" target="_blank">an overall view</a>, and here is a <a href="http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/southeast_asia/philippines/tectonics.html" target="_blank">detailed view of the Philippines area</a>.

And here's <a href="http://www.scotese.com" target="_blank">Chris Scotese's excellent continental-drift site</a>. It has maps of how the continents have drifted for the last 600 million years.

[ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]

Secular Pinoy · 12-16-2002, 01:55 AM

Thnaks for the recommendations and the links people. According to the site, volcanoes are a major threat in the Philippines. Hmmm... yes eruptions do a lot of damage here. And it's the mudflows, called lahar, that does most of the damage. Lahar is already a household word here, which tells us of the major impact volcanic eruptions have on our society.

I remember the Mt. Pinatubo eruption of the early nineties. You could see the pillar of smoke and ash near the horizon, which is shocking, since the mountain itself is a few hundred kilometers away. The ashfall reached Metro Manila about a few weeks after the main blast, which happened on our Independence Day, June 12. I remembered waking up to find our front walkway covered in ash. The eruption is said to be about as bad as what happened at Mt. St. Helens in America, if not worse.

The eruption, BTW, happened near the U.S. Air Force base in Clark Field, Pampanga province, where it did major damage. The Americans were being booted by the Philippine Senate at the time, so we Filipinos ended up cleaning the place so we could use whatever the Americans left (facilities, air field, etc.). The U.S. Subic Naval Base was also affected.

Despite all these, geology is not a major science course in the Philippines. I know of only a few universities that offer undergraduate and graduate degrees in geology. Geology is not part of most college curriculums too. I find that saddening. We live in a volcanically and tectonically active part of the Earth, yet we don't teach students even the basics of the geosciences to most undergrads.

Secular Pinoy · 12-16-2002, 02:32 AM

Hmmm... after researching the three book recommendations in Amazon.com, I found out that the books are either Out of Print/Stock, or they are very expensive ($40 for Tjeerd van Andel's). After digging through the Amazon website, I found the following books, and I'd like to know if they are any good:

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060193611" target="_blank">The Map That Changed the World</a>
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/068487282X" target="_blank">The Mysteries of Terra Firma</a>
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0813339812" target="_blank">Plate Tectonics: An Insider's History of the Modern Theory of the Earth</a> (If it's not too technical)
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071351612" target="_blank">Furious Earth</a>

So, has anyone read any of the books here? Are they any good? Too technical for the non-science major?

ps418 · 12-16-2002, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secular Pinoy:
Hmmm... after researching the three book recommendations in Amazon.com, I found out that the books are either Out of Print/Stock, or they are very expensive ($40 for Tjeerd van Andel's). After digging through the Amazon website, I found the following books, and I'd like to know if they are any good:

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060193611" target="_blank">The Map That Changed the World</a>
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/068487282X" target="_blank">The Mysteries of Terra Firma</a>
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0813339812" target="_blank">Plate Tectonics: An Insider's History of the Modern Theory of the Earth</a> (If it's not too technical)
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071351612" target="_blank">Furious Earth</a>

So, has anyone read any of the books here? Are they any good? Too technical for the non-science major?

Let me give you some priceless advice: never buy books new if you dont have to! Look under the search bar on the Amazon main page. Pull down the drop down menu and select Zshops. Search there for used copies of whatever you're looking for. I saw a copy of Van Andel's book for $8.94. You might also want to look at Half.com, another great place to get cheap used books.

Regarding Plate Tectonics: An Insider's History, its really a history book more than anything else. If you want to learn about the nuts and bolts of plate tectonics, I'd recommend something else. There's a book called
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0735102007/ref=pd_sim_books_4/103-7389065-1655809?v=glance&s=books" target="_blank">Plate Tectonics: Unraveling the Mysteries of the Earth</a>, with a used copy available for $6.50 (list price $35).

The Mysteries of Terra Firma I definitely recommend (used copy $5.36 at Amazon). I also recommed Powell's book Night Comes to the Cretaceous.

Remember: Save your money, buy used!

thebeave · 12-16-2002, 11:28 AM

Thanks lpetrich and LeftCoast for clarifying the hot spot "on/off" theory. My memory is fading a bit, I guess!

12-15-2002, 04:02 PM	#14
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	So in effect, the hot spot's magma punches holes to escape through. And that new Hawaiian volcano is called Loihi. it is off the southern coast of the Big Island. It's underwater, but it is growing fast enough to reach the surface in the next several thousand years. [ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

12-15-2002, 05:59 PM	#15
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	I wish to note that Secular Pinoy himself is living on top of a subduction zone. The Philippine Plate is going under the Eurasian Plate -- which contains most of the Philippine islands; here's <a href="http://geology.er.usgs.gov/eastern/plates.html" target="_blank">an overall view</a>, and here is a <a href="http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/southeast_asia/philippines/tectonics.html" target="_blank">detailed view of the Philippines area</a>. And here's <a href="http://www.scotese.com" target="_blank">Chris Scotese's excellent continental-drift site</a>. It has maps of how the continents have drifted for the last 600 million years. [ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

12-16-2002, 02:32 AM	#17
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	Hmmm... after researching the three book recommendations in Amazon.com, I found out that the books are either Out of Print/Stock, or they are very expensive ($40 for Tjeerd van Andel's). After digging through the Amazon website, I found the following books, and I'd like to know if they are any good: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060193611" target="_blank">The Map That Changed the World</a> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/068487282X" target="_blank">The Mysteries of Terra Firma</a> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0813339812" target="_blank">Plate Tectonics: An Insider's History of the Modern Theory of the Earth</a> (If it's not too technical) <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071351612" target="_blank">Furious Earth</a> So, has anyone read any of the books here? Are they any good? Too technical for the non-science major?

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12-15-2002, 05:09 AM	#11
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	There are few good popular books on geology. Probably the closest analogue for Dawkins or Sagan in this field would be John McPhee. His book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0374518734/qid=1039961051/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/103-7389065-1655809?v=glance&s=books&n=507846" target="_blank">Annals of the Former World</a> is pretty good. Tjeerd van Andel's old book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521447550/qid=1039961167/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-7389065-1655809?v=glance&s=books&n=507846" target="_blank">New Views on an Old Planet</a> is midway between a popular and a textbook account. There was a great book I saw in a bookstore a while back which I thought would be a great introductio to geology, but I cant remember the name. It was profusely illustrated, was a large coffee table style book, and had the world "earth" in the title.

12-15-2002, 06:26 AM	#12
Artemus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USA Posts: 2,467	PBS had a very good series I saw in about 1990 called "The Making of a Continent" about the geology of North America. The companion book seems to be available used at <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812910796/qid=1039965847/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-2983198-6471319?v=glance&s=books&n=507846" target="_blank">The Making of a Continent</a> . Hmmm...it was published in 1983 so may be a bit out of date, but I think it is an excellent read for the layperson.

12-16-2002, 01:55 AM	#16
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	Thnaks for the recommendations and the links people. According to the site, volcanoes are a major threat in the Philippines. Hmmm... yes eruptions do a lot of damage here. And it's the mudflows, called lahar, that does most of the damage. Lahar is already a household word here, which tells us of the major impact volcanic eruptions have on our society. I remember the Mt. Pinatubo eruption of the early nineties. You could see the pillar of smoke and ash near the horizon, which is shocking, since the mountain itself is a few hundred kilometers away. The ashfall reached Metro Manila about a few weeks after the main blast, which happened on our Independence Day, June 12. I remembered waking up to find our front walkway covered in ash. The eruption is said to be about as bad as what happened at Mt. St. Helens in America, if not worse. The eruption, BTW, happened near the U.S. Air Force base in Clark Field, Pampanga province, where it did major damage. The Americans were being booted by the Philippine Senate at the time, so we Filipinos ended up cleaning the place so we could use whatever the Americans left (facilities, air field, etc.). The U.S. Subic Naval Base was also affected. Despite all these, geology is not a major science course in the Philippines. I know of only a few universities that offer undergraduate and graduate degrees in geology. Geology is not part of most college curriculums too. I find that saddening. We live in a volcanically and tectonically active part of the Earth, yet we don't teach students even the basics of the geosciences to most undergrads.

12-16-2002, 11:28 AM	#19
thebeave Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 4,183	Thanks lpetrich and LeftCoast for clarifying the hot spot "on/off" theory. My memory is fading a bit, I guess!

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