Freethought & Rationalism Archive

leonarde · 03-18-2003, 05:09 AM

Previously posted:

Quote:

I read that that one is UN Resolution 242, from approximately 30 years ago.

242 is being repeatedly broken by Israel, with help by the US money from taxes.

If you read the text of 242 it includes NOT ONLY the withdrawal from land but the acknowledgement of states' sovereignties, international borders and right to exist. The Camp David Agreement was possible because Egypt (or Sadat to be more exact) was willing to recognize Israel and Israel gave up the land (Sinai) taken from Egypt in the war. Alas, Syria has yet to find its Sadat.

Cheers!

Nozferatu · 03-18-2003, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by leonarde
Previously posted:

If you read the text of 242 it includes NOT ONLY the withdrawal from land but the acknowledgement of states' sovereignties, international borders and right to exist. The Camp David Agreement was possible because Egypt (or Sadat to be more exact) was willing to recognize Israel and Israel gave up the land (Sinai) taken from Egypt in the war. Alas, Syria has yet to find its Sadat.

Cheers!

And Israel has yet to find a Rabin....

Nozferatu · 03-18-2003, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fonzarelli
[

If Iraq launched a nuke at a populated area of the USA or Europe today, and it hit and hundreds of thousands of people died instantly, would you're opinions on this war change? [/B]

I'm sure it would...but that's not what's happening is it....
Imagine you were Iraqi and every ten years countries called the USA and UK come over and drop bombs on the country. Men, women, children, old people, young people, normal human beings....

Do you think your opinion would change too?

Mr. Superbad · 03-18-2003, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fonzarelli
Saddam has repeatedly ignored the UN resolutions...

Saddam isn't going to co-opperate. That is a fact. Saddam will not stand down as leader of Iraq. That is a fact. Physical, miltary action is the only way possible to put Saddam out of the picture and that is what this war is about.

The US was never just interested in disarming Saddam. That is fact. The US/UK/Spain never waited until the inspectors determined that Iraq was in violation of 1441, as required by 1441 in order to take action. That is fact. There is no reason why we couldn't wait for other nations to come around and invade later if the US/UK hadn't built up troops prematurely. That is fact. There is no evidence that we must invade Iraq at this moment or else. That is fact. There is no evidence that Iraq has been, or was about to commit terrorist actions against the US. That is fact. There is no evidence (that hasn't been discredited) that Iraq has a credible nuclear program that would require an immediate invasion. (unlike Iran and NK). That is fact.

I think you are unaware of how much of Saddam's arsenal was destroyed through weapons inspections during these twelve years. Or that we stopped pursuing disarming Iraq after Desert Fox (which destroyed much of his arsenal as well, but we don't know how much). Why can't we just target every suspected site of WMD for airstrikes like in Desert Fox? Why does this matter require invasion and regeime change?

MortalWombat · 03-18-2003, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Superbad
I think you are unaware of how much of Saddam's arsenal was destroyed through weapons inspections during these twelve years.

Is there a link to a website somewhere that spells out what and how much was destroyed by weapons inspections?

Mr. Superbad · 03-18-2003, 11:28 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/...794275,00.html

Quote:

Prior to their departure, the inspection teams had destroyed or made unusable 48 long range missiles, 14 conventional missile warheads, 30 chemical warheads, "supergun" components, close to 40,000 chemical munitions, 690 tonnes of chemical weapons agents and the al-Hakam biological weapons plant. It had discovered evidence of a nuclear programme that was more advanced than previously expected.

And after this Operation Desert Fox basically bombed every suspected WMD site.

Atticus_Finch · 03-18-2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nozferatu
I can't believe the world has come to this.

I can't believe that these fkers are lying in front of the world and no one cares or understands or sees what's going on.

I can't believe that a mass population can't do anything to stop monkeys like Bush and Cheney from doing what they are doing.

It's incredibly frustrating to see how these people are just simply getting away with it.

This war is simply about oil, Bush's agenda, and Israel's agenda. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't know who sounds more like a monkey idiot...Bush senior saying "It's not about oil..it's about morality" right before the Gulf war or his monkey son saying what he said today.

What is wrong with Americans these days? For God's sake people, take back control of your government because it's completely out of control. It's not even close to being for the people by the people. Bush has shown that in a clear and very concise manner.

The American public's opinion means absolutely nothing to your government...nothing at all.

NEWS FLASH--The American public supports Bush on this issue. Gallup Poll You may not like it because you disagree but there are the numbers.

Regards,

Finch

Chuck · 03-18-2003, 11:38 AM

Quote:

NEWS FLASH--The American public supports Bush on this issue. Gallup Poll You may not like it because you disagree but there are the numbers.

NEWS FLASH--Wrong.

From the same page:

Quote:

If the United States decides not to offer any new resolutions on Iraq and goes forward with military action without a new U.N. vote at all, half of Americans would oppose an invasion of Iraq, while 47% would be in favor.

This administration has been uncompromising and totally unwilling to acknowledge the viewpoint of half of the nation. This is disturbing.

Chuck

MortalWombat · 03-18-2003, 11:42 AM

Thanks for the link, Mr. SB.

Atticus_Finch · 03-18-2003, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Fristians
NEWS FLASH--Wrong.

From the same page:

This administration has been uncompromising and totally unwilling to acknowledge the viewpoint of half of the nation. This is disturbing.

Chuck

Sorry, you are wrong. The overnight poll said that 66% of Americans agreed with the president's decision (i.e. to go to war without the U.N. resolution).

Regards,

Finch

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03-18-2003, 11:42 AM	#29
MortalWombat Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: St Louis area Posts: 3,458	Thanks for the link, Mr. SB.

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