Kosh

Or the entire nation of Egypt perched on top
the pyramids...

Quetzal

You are, of course, correct, although I submit it could be used in BOTH cases. It seems the author can't really make up his mind whom he hates worse: evilutionists of the Vast Evilutionist Conspiracy (TM) or traitorous Xians who try to excuse the Flood embarassment by logically claiming it was local rather than global. Must be terrible to have so many enemies.

randman

I don't know enough about YEC to argue all these points, but it strikes me as if some of you are engaging in a straw man type approach.
I have read some of AIG recently, and personally, I think those that are bashing it are not actually tackling the best arguments by those guys.
I don't pretend to be an expert on YEC, but at the same time, I rarely see anyone try to debunk their ideas by first showing they understand their arguments and then show why tbey are wrong.
Talkorigins, I consider somewhat to be a joke, but I have read more intelligent proponents for evolution elsewhere on various subjects.

Daggah

randman, perhaps you'd like to point out *where* their arguments are inaccurate?

Most, if not all, even, of AiG is bullshit, randman. Perhaps you'd like to point out their "best" arguments - because in my opinion, even their best arguments aren't worth much.

Kosh

Randman, perhaps you can tell us just exactly
what parts of your Real Estate background (is
that selling or investing?) gives you the education
to be informed enough about the theory of
evolution to claim that AiG is good science?
Hint: Perfect attendance at Sunday School doesn't
count. What was your major in college? Which books
on evolution have you read?

No good scientist (including some damn good ones
on this board) give an ounce of credibility to
AiG or any of the "creation science" bafoons.

tgamble

The purpose of this thread is to respond to the page linked in the first page.

Which of the arguments presented there is a strawman? Why would you think so since the idiot who wrote the page uses creationists sources (including AIG) to support his delusions?

If you think AIG has good arguments, post em here. They'll be raked through the mud.

You call talkorigins a "joke". What about it is a joke? What logical or factual flaws does it have? Can you give even one example?

wdog

the mere thought of this fairy tale is a strawman

randman

I don't have much time today, but one thing Talkorigins does that I consider extremely disingenious is to constantly refer to micro-evolutionary changes as examples of macro-evolution. Even the YEC models predict micro-evolutionary changes, and at a more rapid rate than the evolutionists. Talkorigins, in my view, is deliberately deceptive.

randman

Real estate is a current means of support, not a lifelong career. By the way, I meant that not to be on the list. Guess it didn't get deleted.
By the way, funny how you guys resort so easily to arguing from authority but throw a few of Gould's quotes around about "stasis' in the fossil record and then let's see what happens.

Kosh

I'm just trying to figure out at what level of
investigation you've made before throwing out
the theory. Was it based on a thorough reading
and understanding of the theory of evolution?
Or did you just read the AiG retorts and decide
it fit well with your pre-disposed beliefs?

You still haven't answered the question about
your background or depth of investigation.

As to the micro-evolution thing... at what point
do you think micro evolution is forced to stop,
and by what mechanism? Remember that the theory
of evolution does not state that there are drastic
changes in one generation, just that many many many micro-evolutionary changes eventually ad
up over millions of years. Your "statis" argument
holds no water simply because the ToE does not
require organisms to change.