Oolon Colluphid

So?
Nope. Phenomenally sad, and infuriating, and stupid.
So?

I think you’ll find that the Galapagos finches Geospiza scandens and Platyspiza crassirostris both evolved from a common ancestor too. And yet, lo and behold, they are finches both. A monophyletic group. As are Homo sapiens, Pan troglodytes and Pan paniscus.
More humanlike than what?
Mageth, I do believe he did...

Three words. 'Different', 'ecological', and 'niches'.
True. And yet, like the finches, they are apes. Which was Rufus’s point.

TTFN, Oolon

simian

Finches are apes? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Simian

Radcliffe Emerson

That was posted because it was said man evolved from apes, and we didn't. We both evolved from the same source.
That's all.

RufusAtticus

No this is inaccurate. Man did evolve from apes. In fact we are apes. We just didn't evolve from any of the other extant apes.

Minnesota

I set out to dispute this claim, but as I looked into it, it does appear to make sense.
However, I remain somewhat skeptical, and would appreciate it if you would give your justification for it.

Thanks,

Minnesota.

RufusAtticus

Humans are great apes (family Hominidae and possibly family Hylobatidae) (hereafter refered simply as "apes"). Apes share common morphological features discussed here. These common features signal that the common ancestor of extant apes also had these features, and would thus also be an ape, in any morphological and classificational sense. Thus it is correct to state that humans did in fact evolve from apes, but not out of the apes. Just like it is correct to state that humans evolved from primates and mammals.

Radcliffe Emerson

Well, we ARE classified as primates, so it makes sense.
The common ancestor then was an early form of ape.

Minnesota

Rufus,

Thanks.

Valentine Pontifex

It depends on how you classfy things.

But lets start with the facts that all virtually all the relevent scientists agree with the following evolutionary relationships
will I will present in a crude ASCII diagram.

Chimps are more closely related to us than they are to gorillas.

Cladistic classification which is used by most specialists bases classification based soley on evolutionary relationships. The principle is that only recognized taxons will be a common ancestor and all of its descendents. Under this criteria humans are indisputably apes.

Traditional classification schemes will will recognize that evolutionary relationships but the are not based soley on them.
A person who goes this way might say he recognizes that humans are part of the ape clade, and that humans and chimps have more shared derived features then do chimps and gorillas. However he will think that certain subjective characteristics (possibly wearing digital watches for example) are more important and thus he will classify humans into a different taxon.

This might seem strange to you, but "reptiles" are such a taxon. Cladists don't recognize the reptiles since they are not a clade since mammals are not considered reptiles. However traditionalists will say that some features like having fur are more important for some subjective reason and thus justifies a new taxon.

goat37

I would like to remind everyone how America (the U.S.) was really founded... We were the most uptight, religious fanatics known to man kind (the Puritans). It does not shock me that 45% of Americans think Creationism is right, but I do find it rather sad.

I believe in Evolution, whether it be from Monkeys or some other vertebrate I cannot say. I guess that I more strongly disagree with Creation than I do agree with anything. Why do creationists always ask the question "Who created the universe?" with a sly smirk and then get befuddled when you ask "Who created God?". Their answer is always the same, "God has always existed, no one created god, God just simply WAS." Why can't they accept the same about the universe if they accept that notion about God?

But it all really comes down to this. If by some weird twist of fate it actually turned out Creationism WAS true... I'd be able to accept it, because I keep an open mind but I have my own ideas and opinions. I think if it was actually proven that evolution was correct, their heads would explode from incomprehension.