Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jobar · 08-07-2002, 06:44 PM

Hmm- how about a formal three-sided debate, with a polytheist, a monotheist, and an atheist? It would have to be focused down to a very precise question to argue- mmm- "why is polytheism/monotheism/atheism better for individuals than the other two?"

Of course, I'm putting all my bets on the atheist!

Bible Humper · 08-08-2002, 11:11 AM

Hello Amos,

Quote:

Hi there Whimsy, I know what you mean because I've been a zomby and was alive but did not know it. Right? Right.

No, unless you died and have been re-animated you have not been the "zombie" I was talking about. Sure, christians are often called "zombies" or "christbots", but you of all people should be used to taking things metaphorically, eh?

Quote:

However, I don't think that vampires and ghosts belong in this category.

Vampires and ghosts are considered undead, just like zombies.

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Of course it answers the question because in our higher order consciousness (our soul) we are fully alive and without conditions or limitations the extension of our predestined determination. We are the Lord God protected by God to give sustainance to God and use "like god" (our ego from Gen.3) to do the dirty work (no pain in heaven).

Hmm, rather pantheistic. So then our soul is a part of God, protected by God, and used by God to do the "dirty work", eh?

Well maybe Yahweh thinks that that is a sneaky legalistic way to legitimately be able to claim ultimate goodness while still authoring evil, but evil by proxy is still evil. Yahweh's alleged omnipotence and omniscience leave him no room to squirm here.

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From this determined mode of existence we draw inspirations and ambitions to live our own life (we wanne be "like god") and do the things we want to do in effort to enhance our lower form of existence.

Ahem, as I was saying....

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We expose these ambitions to the world so we can call them our own and while doing so we encounted opposites that are counterproductive. In religious terms they are called evil and are never supernatural but can be incarnate from within our soul.

You just contradicted your earlier assertion that our soul is our "higher order consciousness" which is the Lord God, protected by God, and used by God.
Evil is indeed supernatural since our souls=God and evil is "incarnate from within our soul", eh?

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The same is true with pleasure which is extrapolated from infinite bliss. Pleasure has its opposite in pain and since a pair of opposites cannot be conceived to exist without the other our search for pleasure will always yield us an equal amount of pain and unless we draw near to our soul will we always be torn between pleasure and pain.

Sadism and masochism bring your theory of "pleasure and pain are opposites" to it's knees. <unzip>

"The search for pleasure will always yield an equal amount of pain" is one of those silly New Agey mantras that tries really hard to sound profound, but doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

08-08-2002, 11:51 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Splashing Colours Of Whimsy:
<strong>Hello Amos,

quote:
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Hi there Whimsy, I know what you mean because I've been a zomby and was alive but did not know it. Right? Right.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, unless you died and have been re-animated you have not been the "zombie" I was talking about. Sure, christians are often called "zombies" or "christbots", but you of all people should be used to taking things metaphorically, eh?
==================================================
OK, different "zombie." My zombie is not consciously aware of his surroundings but is perfectly sane and alert.

Quote:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it answers the question because in our higher order consciousness (our soul) we are fully alive and without conditions or limitations the extension of our predestined determination. We are the Lord God protected by God to give sustainance to God and use "like god" (our ego from Gen.3) to do the dirty work (no pain in heaven).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm, rather pantheistic. So then our soul is a part of God, protected by God, and used by God to do the "dirty work", eh?

Well maybe Yahweh thinks that that is a sneaky legalistic way to legitimately be able to claim ultimate goodness while still authoring evil, but evil by proxy is still evil. Yahweh's alleged omnipotence and omniscience leave him no room to squirm here.

No, just opposite. Our soul does not do any of the dirty work but our ego does. Our ego has a mind of its own (conscious mind) which is separated from our soul and in which we are distant from God. Driven by our ego our conscious mind employs our body to achieve fame and will do dirty work to achieve this.

quote:
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From this determined mode of existence we draw inspirations and ambitions to live our own life (we wanne be "like god") and do the things we want to do in effort to enhance our lower form of existence.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ahem, as I was saying....

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We expose these ambitions to the world so we can call them our own and while doing so we encounted opposites that are counterproductive. In religious terms they are called evil and are never supernatural but can be incarnate from within our soul.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You just contradicted your earlier assertion that our soul is our "higher order consciousness" which is the Lord God, protected by God, and used by God.
Evil is indeed supernatural since our souls=God and evil is "incarnate from within our soul", eh?

If you take incarnate to mean supernatural then indeed evil is supernatural and it is true that our incarnate vices can be just a persistent as our incarnate virtues.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The same is true with pleasure which is extrapolated from infinite bliss. Pleasure has its opposite in pain and since a pair of opposites cannot be conceived to exist without the other our search for pleasure will always yield us an equal amount of pain and unless we draw near to our soul will we always be torn between pleasure and pain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sadism and masochism bring your theory of "pleasure and pain are opposites" to it's knees. <unzip>

Not really because both pleasure and pain are illusions and the beholder of these illusions alone is the judge. Otherwise pleasure and pain could never be opposites.

"The search for pleasure will always yield an equal amount of pain" is one of those silly New Agey mantras that tries really hard to sound profound, but doesn't hold up under scrutiny.</strong>

Of course they do or only rich people would be happy and if that was the case gold could bring infinite happiness. The truth is that all richess are liabilities until we can walk away from them without losing anything.

Keith Russell · 08-08-2002, 12:36 PM

Greetings:

Amos said:
"That's rather easy since life has no opposite in itself. The finite evil exist only because in our deprived state of consciousness we must extact love to sustain life from our higher state of consciousness and because of this intermitted regeneration of life an opposite force to love is possible. We call this hate, strife, lust etc.

Note that the definition of infinity here is without beginning and without end while the finite has a beginning and an end."

Sorry, I don't speak this language.

I had already explained my beleif, that the 'infinite' does not exist, because it cannot. What is 'infinite' would be all there is; there would literally be no room for anything else to exist.

You failed utterly to address this point.

I accept as an axiom that all things are finite.

Keith Russell.

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08-07-2002, 06:44 PM	#11
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Hmm- how about a formal three-sided debate, with a polytheist, a monotheist, and an atheist? It would have to be focused down to a very precise question to argue- mmm- "why is polytheism/monotheism/atheism better for individuals than the other two?" Of course, I'm putting all my bets on the atheist!

08-08-2002, 12:36 PM	#14
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Greetings: Amos said: "That's rather easy since life has no opposite in itself. The finite evil exist only because in our deprived state of consciousness we must extact love to sustain life from our higher state of consciousness and because of this intermitted regeneration of life an opposite force to love is possible. We call this hate, strife, lust etc. Note that the definition of infinity here is without beginning and without end while the finite has a beginning and an end." Sorry, I don't speak this language. I had already explained my beleif, that the 'infinite' does not exist, because it cannot. What is 'infinite' would be all there is; there would literally be no room for anything else to exist. You failed utterly to address this point. I accept as an axiom that all things are finite. Keith Russell.

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