Freethought & Rationalism Archive

phlebas · 07-12-2002, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Odemus:


Death is innevitable, I am ready for it.

You didn't answer my question.

Zippy · 07-12-2002, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WJ:

I still believe what you said earlier is right on the mark. It is basically nonsensical for an atheist to worry so much about the (non)existence of God.

Why can't you understand? It is a source of great sadness to many that we live in a world where people still believe in myths. It affects everyone, be they believers or not.

Paul

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: Zippy ]

Theli · 07-12-2002, 02:17 PM

Ehh... Moderators?

Doesn't this thread belong in the rants, raves and preaching forum?
It seems to be abit missplaced.

Odemus · 07-12-2002, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
Here's an even simpler way of putting it, Odemus.

A christian scientist will let their child die of infection, because their beliefs (their uncertain certainties, if you like) compell them to allow their own child to die rather than seek the help of their fellow men and women.

Such a belief is not just unworthy of respect it is demonstrably detrimental to other human beings and therefore society should intervene and say, in effect, you are simply not allowed to act in this manner based upon your belief.

How is my child any better then an ant that I step on?Is stepping on an ant and letting my child die different?Why is letting my child die unworthy of respect?How is it detrimental to other human beings (other than my child, the ant).

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:

You can believe anything you want, but you cannot act upon that belief in this manner.

Why not? Lot's of people do.50 year old men ride around in unmarked vans luring children with candy and cabbage patch dolls.They certainly believe it's justifiable and act upon it.Is their philosophy any more wrong than yours?If a massive meteor destroyed all life on earth who would be around to make such moral or quantitative assessments?

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:

Just as we as a society declare that the Al Queda cannot act upon their beliefs in the manner they have chosen.

But they did, and they may have countries filled with people who agree with their philosophy just like we do who agree with ours.In any case who is to say they are wrong for flying jets into buildings?If there is no God, those people who died certainly don't care, and those who loved them will all be dead one day anyway.

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
Belief is perfectly fine when it is kept as a personal, inactive and non-influential "lucky charm" if you like, but when one's beliefs affect others in a harmful or detrimental manner, then just as you have the right to hold that belief, society has the right to prevent you from acting upon that belief.

Belief is fine based on what?Society has a right to prevent me from acting on anything based on what?

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
The same is true of all aspects of our society. You can certainly want to murder somebody all you like, but if you act upon that desire, society says, "No. You can't do that."

..and I can hire a high priced lawyer and say "oh yes I can get away with that".In any case who cares?What's wrong with murder?

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
If the majority of christians actually followed one of Jesus' declarations (to not do as the hypocrites do and pray in secret) and that were the only declaration followed then we wouldn't be "passionate" at all.

First of all, Jesus was referring to the pharisees who made a public self righteous display of their prayer. Jesus and the apostles all prayed publicly but the example was not to pray as the Pharisees.

Regardless, if there is no God why on earth should it bother you that someone else prays publicly?Why should such a thing offend you so?Are you that insecure in your beliefs?When you walk down the streets of New York and pass insane people who are talking to themselves do you get offended?

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
But the majority of christians follow everything but that one edict; they proselytize and "witness" and inculcate their children ("suffer the children unto me") and spread their slave mentality doctrines like a virus from the local all the way up to our f*cking President, who, as a direct result of his own inculcation calls entire nations of people "evildoers" under an "axis of evil."

Christians make a handy scapegoat for everything huh?Let's cut to the chase here and get to the bottom of your whining.How exactly do Christians negatively impact your life?What about Christianity prevents you from living the kind of life you want to live?

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
This is not just a profound and unconsionable lie, it is and has proved to be extremely detrimental to humans all over the world, both here and abroad.

I can't wait for the first athiest president who says "this last act of terrorism caused us a notable disadvantage in terms of labor loss and capital, we need to ensure that such a thing does not happen again".Because that will be a so much better approach.

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
Division, hatred, prejudice, victimization, torture, executions, wars; all of which have been as a direct result of the words and teachings of just the New Testament, not to mention the Old.

Ah yes, more scapegoatism.On one hand religion was create to keep everyone in subjection, on the other it is the cause of all the evil in the world.Have you any empirical proof that athiesm will rid the world of...well what would athiesm call it? Detriment?

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
The christian cult, specifically, was so powerful and so detrimental that our entire country was founded upon the principle of separation of Church and State (and we still haven't gotten there, as witnessed by the recent fact that Congress stood on the steps stating "under God" while they pledged allegiance to the flag).

Ah yes, the infamous horrible "under God" which has caused the world so much pain and suffering.Do you every stop pointing the finger and take realistic assessment of life?

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
"In God we trust" is on our money and in our courtrooms and christian prayers are spoken in our schools. The Ten Commandments can be found in just about any Government office throughout the Bible belt.

Yes my goodness, how can I go on living one instant longer knowing that my money has the name of a fictional person on it!AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH.

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
Hell, we even have a whole section of our country that is still largely referred to as the Bible belt.

You may see nothing wrong with that, because, I contend, you have been conditioned to see nothing wrong with that.

...and I contend if there is no God then there is nothing wrong.

Regardless you reason that someone should not be able to live according to their whims if society condems them.Yet where society is majority religious, the minority non religious should be given preference?I bet you don't even see a double standard in that.

I am not responding to the rest of your post because it is totally ridiculous, not only do you not know what I believe, you presume to tell me that you do, and no matter how much I tell you your inference of meaning from Scripture is totally wrong you'll just tell me that it isn't.Stick to what you know.

Typhon · 07-12-2002, 02:38 PM

Well, I have to say I think it clearly belongs <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=54" target="_blank">here</a>.

.T.

Odemus · 07-12-2002, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phlebas:


You didn't answer my question.

Yes I did, if I was afraid, I wouldn't be ready.

Odemus · 07-12-2002, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samhain:
Odemus:

Don't clutter this thread with your inaccurate statements, biases, misrepresentations or prejudices. A good many of us are completely dedicated to establishing tolerance amoung all religions, and your misrepresentation with hasty over-generalizations fly in the face of the facts. I don't think any of us will deny that there are some here who do happen to have a bone to pick with theists, a good many do, and rightfully so in most cases considering the amount of intolerance we face daily from christian ilk. Further, the reason you may portray us as having "an axe to grind" may be because of the general misinformation that so many come here and spew as if factual. It does happen to irritate some more than others, and thus, our work to establish tolerance is constantly interrupted by our duty to defend our own views from those who would ignorantly slander our position. It has nothing to do with us, but the intolerance of theists that gives those at II an axe to grind.

%90 of this message board is a direct challenge to Christianity.

Typhon · 07-12-2002, 02:48 PM

Such comedic gems continue to spill from Odious' mouth...

Quote:

50 year old men ride around in unmarked vans luring children with candy and cabbage patch dolls.

lol. Who the hell likes cabbage patch dolls these days?

Quote:

In any case who is to say they are wrong for flying jets into buildings?If there is no God, those people who died certainly don't care, and those who loved them will all be dead one day anyway.

That would be rich, if it wasn't so stupid. Um, let me take a guess... the people who died? Their relatives? The many godless atheists of this country who feel murder is a crime? You see you poor benighted, blind theist, god doesn't exist, and people still take being killed and having their loved ones killed rather harshly, and for good reason.

It is likely that one day I will step on a rusty nail, painfully impaling it into my tender foot and requiring a nasty tetanus booster shot. Because this is likely however, I don't exactly rush out and look for a nail to step on just to get it over and done with.

Sigh. Yet another goddidit idiot who doesn't "get" that morality and moral behavior existed long before the creation of gods, and exists just fine without them.

Cheers, and I really hope you don't have either an unmarked van or a pilots license.

.T.

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: Typhon ]

Mageth · 07-12-2002, 02:49 PM

%90 of this message board is a direct challenge to Christianity.

Yeah, reality's a bitch, ain't it?

Odemus · 07-12-2002, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Typhon:
The many godless atheists of this country who feel murder is a crime? You see you poor benighted, blind theist, god doesn't exist, and people still take being killed and having their loved ones killed rather harshly, and for good reason.

What is that reason?

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07-12-2002, 02:17 PM	#83
Theli Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,567	Ehh... Moderators? Doesn't this thread belong in the rants, raves and preaching forum? It seems to be abit missplaced.

07-12-2002, 02:38 PM	#85
Typhon Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mount Aetna Posts: 271	Well, I have to say I think it clearly belongs <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=54" target="_blank">here</a>. .T.

07-12-2002, 02:49 PM	#89
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	%90 of this message board is a direct challenge to Christianity. Yeah, reality's a bitch, ain't it?

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