Amie

Hi Azathoth
I just believe we are part of a bigger picture. Yes despite the fact there is no evidence...
I don't. it could be the blue trolls for all I know, I believe in God though. not blue trolls.
does everything that you believe in have evidence to back it up Azathoth? everything?
I know faith doesn't seem to fly around here, and that is ok but I do not think faith is built on nothing. Faith builds up through personal experiences, religious indoctrination and education, familial teachings, cultural backgrounds... I do not think of those things as nothing however I can understand why you would think so, being an atheist and a rather pleasant one...

Infinity Lover

Do you mean, what if something odds-defying, seemingly miraculous happened in the field of engineering?

I think the answer would be pretty much the same, wouldn't it?
But I'll just wait and see what Amie says.

Amie

Hi Shadowy Man I just had this post almost done and I got punted off AOL

OK here is my stance on this. When it comes to personal religious or non religious views I do not feel that anyone's is any better than anyone elses. We are each entitled to a belief and they are different from one another, no less, no more just different points of view. Now a belief in and of itself is just that, someones view on religious issues. however if ones belief harms another in any way then that is a problem. For example I am a pro-lifer however i do not support those quacks who are out bombing abortion clinics. I believe in God however I do not support the killing of anyone in the name of God. I feel that anytime someones belief causes them to hurt another person in any way either physically or emotionally, then it is time for them to abandon that belief or at least reevaluate that belief to attempt to figure out the reasons behind the destructive manifestation in ones life.

Regarding your question about the issues of engineering I would suggest that an engineer's explanations would would be more appropriate than mine since I am not educated in electrical engineering. However if you ever want to know how to treat anaphylactic shock or perhaps hear all about covalent and ionic bonds then I am your girl

Shadowy Man

No, I mean in the sense of: do you believe that one person's view of how electrical engineering works is just as equally valid as another person's view?

And don't bring odd-defying into the argument, because odds-defying things happen all the time - there is nothing "miraculous" about beating the odds.

Amie

Oh thats great. Now I know how Isaac Asimov feels, put it in your own words bub.

Shadowy Man

I understand that, but I don't think it is ever that simple. In some senses believing something and being accepting of others who believe it helps to fuel the propagation of that belief. If harmful things are being done because of that belief, not necessarily on an individual basis, then it would be harmful to support the continuance of an environment that enables the harm.

In a sense I'm thinking of it this way. Let's say you think chopping down trees for paper is bad. I decide to "waste" some paper but I say "well, the tree was already chopped down and turned into paper, so I'm not really killing a tree by wasting this paper." But those who chop down trees to convert to paper will continue to do so because I am generating a need for the paper.

Does any of that make sense? Looking at what I wrote, I feel like I really haven't expressed my thoughts well. Oh well, I'll leave it out there, perhaps someone will figure out what it is that I'm talking about... sigh.

Amie

Understood
Yes it makes sense Shadowy Man

Infinity Lover

IIRC Amies stance is, that if a personal belief leads to physical harm, it should be abandoned. Condoning a godbelief is not the same as condoning harmfull behaviour out of belief.

The Naked Mage

You have problems with ignorance being portrayed in a negative light, I trust?

Novowels

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.