Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ergaster · 10-10-2002, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:
...Evolution is not a fact,its a theory.

I've been lurking, in bemused wonderment, on this thread, but this...THIS...statement...and this person is teaching ANY kind of science???? A person with a degree in a scientific field who doesn't know what a scientific theory is???????

The horror! The horror!

Anyone who can claim a legitimate post-secondary science degree and yet claim, with a straight face, that "Evolution is only a theory" should have said degree immediately revoked. Clearly they learned nothing.

Shadowy Man · 10-10-2002, 07:28 AM

Sciteach:

Quote:

Why does the 'West' have almost all the best scientists??

Yeah, like: A. A. Michelson, Albert Einstein, Niels Bohr, Otto Stern, Gustav Hertz, I. I. Rabi, Max Born, Richard Feynman, Carl Sagan, Wolfgang Pauli, Hans Krebs, Arno Penzias, Leon Lederman, Martin Perl, Hans Bethe, J. Robert Oppenheimer, Murray Gell-Mann, John Von Neumann, Jonas Salk, Lev Landau, Lise Meitner, etc.

Nialler · 10-10-2002, 07:31 AM

Sciteach, you claim that you will teach your pupils evolution as required but that you will give them your opinion if they ask.

Why? It's against the law. It's at variance with the facts as agreed by many thousands of scientists that have far more knowledge of the subject than you do.

Why not just say "I am not providing an opinion" if the pupils ask you? Would you say "yes" if they asked you for crack cocaine? You can say "no". Do so.

You may tell me that your religious convictions over-ride the secular law. In that case you are obliged to advise your employers and the pupils' parents of your stance and accept what they will do. It is simply not good enough to sit and wait for the event. You can take action now. Do it.

Tell the school board of your difficulty. Ask them what they feel is the correct course of action. If you are sincere and honest you will ensure that they are aware of the legal ramifications.

Frankly I am amazed that you would accept such a job. Amazed from your manifest lack of knowledge of the subject and secondly because there is clearly a potential conflict of interests in taking the job.

You should forego arguing with biologists (although I believe that several of them here are owed answers by you) and turn your energies to doing the right thing by yourself and by the pupils.

It's the ethical thing to do.

gsx1138 · 10-10-2002, 08:09 AM

Forgive my ignorance but maybe someof you could shed some light on this. Wasn't it Pagan alchemists and philosophers that gave rise to modern science. Also, if I remember correctly, didn't allot of modern Math come from Muslim nations? I'll bow out now, continue.

Wyz_sub10 · 10-10-2002, 08:53 AM

A great deal of science (and art and literature and music) came from the Middle East before Islam utterly destroyed culture there and permantely shunted scientific discovery.

[ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: Wyz_sub10 ]

RufusAtticus · 10-10-2002, 09:19 AM

The last thing I read on it is that Islam encouraged investigation, until it started to get answers it didn't like. Sound familar, anyone?

Motorcycle Mama · 10-10-2002, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ergaster:


I've been lurking, in bemused wonderment, on this thread, but this...THIS...statement...and this person is teaching ANY kind of science???? A person with a degree in a scientific field who doesn't know what a scientific theory is???????

The horror! The horror!

Anyone who can claim a legitimate post-secondary science degree and yet claim, with a straight face, that "Evolution is only a theory" should have said degree immediately revoked. Clearly they learned nothing.

I've followed the exchanges stimulated by sciteach for a brief period of time. Even though I am an evolutionist, but not a Darwinian, I find the contributions of so many of the self-proclaimed evolutionists to be so berift of understanding of the nature of science and biology that I am tempted to side with sciteach, as misguided as non-evolutionists may be. It is tempting to label much of these exchanges as the elaborate equivalent of a pre-school sandbox squabble.
Motorcycle Mama

Motorcycle Mama · 10-10-2002, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:
Why does the 'West' have almost all the best scientists?? Please tell me the pat 'secular' response to this.

Take a look at Stanley Jaki's "The Saviour of Science." It is the latest in his extended argument that modern science could not exist until there was Christ.
Motorcycle Mama

MOJO-JOJO · 10-10-2002, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ergaster:
Anyone who can claim a legitimate post-secondary science degree and yet claim, with a straight face, that "Evolution is only a theory" should have said degree immediately revoked. Clearly they learned nothing.

No..no...you didn't read his post carefully enough. Sciteach said that "evilution" was a theory, not EVOLution. EVILution is the christian interpretation of evolution, with all its little pre-packaged rebuttals and misleading facts that they teach other christians to parrot.

Also, sciteach probably has a "science & physics teaching" degree, not a "Physics" degree. Unfortunately, here in the south, there are many good, church-going teachers like him that have a "real problem" teaching the 'lies of evilution' to their students. I personally know several like him in the church where my wife drags my kids to. Listening to them whine about their higher responsibility to teach kids "the Truth" is so freakin' annoying.

MOJO-JOJO · 10-10-2002, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Motorcycle Mama:
It is tempting to label much of these exchanges as the elaborate equivalent of a pre-school sandbox squabble.
Motorcycle Mama

Or a bunch of bikers brawling outside a bar, Motorcycle Mama?

10-10-2002, 08:53 AM	#145
Wyz_sub10 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the land of two boys and no sleep. Posts: 9,890	A great deal of science (and art and literature and music) came from the Middle East before Islam utterly destroyed culture there and permantely shunted scientific discovery. [ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: Wyz_sub10 ]</p>

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10-10-2002, 07:31 AM	#143
Nialler Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Paris Posts: 8,473	Sciteach, you claim that you will teach your pupils evolution as required but that you will give them your opinion if they ask. Why? It's against the law. It's at variance with the facts as agreed by many thousands of scientists that have far more knowledge of the subject than you do. Why not just say "I am not providing an opinion" if the pupils ask you? Would you say "yes" if they asked you for crack cocaine? You can say "no". Do so. You may tell me that your religious convictions over-ride the secular law. In that case you are obliged to advise your employers and the pupils' parents of your stance and accept what they will do. It is simply not good enough to sit and wait for the event. You can take action now. Do it. Tell the school board of your difficulty. Ask them what they feel is the correct course of action. If you are sincere and honest you will ensure that they are aware of the legal ramifications. Frankly I am amazed that you would accept such a job. Amazed from your manifest lack of knowledge of the subject and secondly because there is clearly a potential conflict of interests in taking the job. You should forego arguing with biologists (although I believe that several of them here are owed answers by you) and turn your energies to doing the right thing by yourself and by the pupils. It's the ethical thing to do.

10-10-2002, 08:09 AM	#144
gsx1138 Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Bremerton, Washington Posts: 379	Forgive my ignorance but maybe someof you could shed some light on this. Wasn't it Pagan alchemists and philosophers that gave rise to modern science. Also, if I remember correctly, didn't allot of modern Math come from Muslim nations? I'll bow out now, continue.

10-10-2002, 09:19 AM	#146
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	The last thing I read on it is that Islam encouraged investigation, until it started to get answers it didn't like. Sound familar, anyone?

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