Corwin

Welcome to Creationist Arguments 101.

Ok wiseguy.... to follow your logic, let's see you produce abiogenesis in a jar in a lab.

Oh, that's right, you can't.

Does this mean the theory is invalid? Nope. What it means is that you have neither the time nor the scale to produce it.

To go back to the rock in a jar of water experiment, give me a jar the size of Montana, a boulder weighing several hundred thousand tons, and give the jar absolute perfect insulation of heat... and about 500,000 years, and I might have a result for you.

Do any of you have any comprehension of the scale we're talking about here? This is a 4.5 billion year old PLANET.

Mageth

tron:

Technically, not by definition. Thermal energy is energy due to chaotic molecular motions. Heat is the transfer of thermal energy due to a temperature difference.

That aside, I see your point. Poor Mageth was confused! Compressing the gas increases its thermal energy, which is expressed as a rise in temperature and pressure. So when I said "compressing something doesn't add heat to it; it increases its temperature" and "the gas before compression stores the same amount of heat as after compression, as long as something else isn't adding heat to or removing heat from the gas during compression" I was just plain wrong. Compressing the gas increases its thermal energy so the compressed gas "stores" more heat, you might say, and has the potential therefore to release more heat, than the original uncompressed gas.

Is that closer to correct? Don't worry about hurting my feelings; unlike Corwin I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong and learn from my mistakes. I'm no physics expert and am here to learn.

But the point that when compression stops, thermal energy no longer increases still holds, I believe.

Mageth

tron -

Cross-posted. Your edit is excellent. That's what I meant to say!

I love this place; where else can I get a physics lesson like this in my spare time?

Corwin

I would agree with that Mageth... possibly you could explain to the class exactly when compression of the earth's core stops?

Mageth

Corwin:

No one's asking you to produce life in a jar, just a simple formula you should be able to find in a physics book, if it exists. It should be applicable to a pebble sitting on a popsicle stick, a book on a table, or a rock the size of Montana in a jar.

tronvillain

Anyone else think it's amusing that Corwin is accusing us of creationist tactics?

Corwin

I think it's amusing as all hell that you're using them.

The question remains.... exactly when does the compression of the earth's core stop?

tronvillain

Corwin:

You have no support for your theory.

You have no experimental evidence for your theory.

Your have no actual predications from your theory.

You have no actual theory.

Shut the hell up.

Corwin

Then let me (again) draw you a map.

When does the compression of the earth's core stop? It doesn't.

Ergo, the earth's core is constantly being compressed.

Ergo, temperature increases, in the same way it does when you stamp a coin. (The surface is smooth because the compression increases the heat enough that the metal becomes liquid. When the pressure is removed, the heat dissipates and the metal solidifies.)

Ergo, you're wrong.

[Edited for typos]

[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: Corwin ]

[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: Corwin ]</p>

Coragyps

I'm guessing, based on what little I knew and what I learned here from Tim Thompson, that it'll stop a very long time from now when the whole mess cools down enough, and the viscosity goes up enough, for heavy stuff to stop raining toward the center. I'm not gonna wait.