Freethought & Rationalism Archive

bluefugue · 02-14-2002, 08:24 AM

Cheer up Oolon, and remember how lucky you are to have an intelligently designed endoskeleton.

Kevin Dorner · 02-14-2002, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oolon Colluphid:
Oolon the miserable

Why? It's a good idea... just needs a bit more research, such as checking what percentage of insects eat their moltings, and a correlation with their biomass showing how much waste is going on...

Plus, you have demonstrated scientific integrity! You are perfectly willing to get rid of the hypothesis if it doesn't stand up. So be happy.

Dr Rick · 02-14-2002, 09:07 AM

The endoskeleton we possess is not a particularly good design, either. It's brittle, prone to separation and degeneration at the joints, and affords very little protection for some important structures such as the spinal cord.

Oolon Colluphid · 02-14-2002, 09:18 AM

Oh all right...

Oolon

lpetrich · 02-16-2002, 08:01 AM

However, our internal skeleton is much more scalable than an external one, and it does not get molted.

The largest arthropod is likely some eurypterid (Paleozoic sea scorpion); some are known that are 2 meters (over 6 feet) long. The largest living one may

However, by the standards of vertebrate gigantism, that is a shrimp.

IMO, the real difficulty with molting is what happens when the animal has shed its old skin and its new skin has yet to harden -- a window of vulnerability.

pug846 · 02-16-2002, 08:20 AM

Oolon, you are forgetting one thing. We were all perfectly designed...but after the fall...uh..somehow...adam and eve and their free choice to eat the fruit...uh...changed the very genetics of every animal...somehow...and so it was adam and eve really and not God...

Adam and Eve: The Ultimate Geneticists.

bluefugue · 02-16-2002, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lpetrich:
The largest arthropod is likely some eurypterid (Paleozoic sea scorpion); some are known that are 2 meters (over 6 feet) long. The largest living one may

However, by the standards of vertebrate gigantism, that is a shrimp.

I thought the main factor limiting arthropods' (or at least insects') size was their respiratory system. If this problem didn't exist, would it still be impossible to have an elephant-sized arthropod -- would it be crushed under the weight of its own exoskeleton?

[ February 16, 2002: Message edited by: IesusDomini ]

Free Thinkr · 02-18-2002, 05:55 AM

Oooh, oooh.. I can answer this one! In short, yes. Try making two spiders out of clay. First, make one real small, then try a huge one. You'll notice that the large one's legs can't support the weight. This is a disadvantage of an exoskelaton, and a reason we never have to worry about the horrible planet depicted in "Starship Troopers."

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02-14-2002, 08:24 AM	#11
bluefugue Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,427	Cheer up Oolon, and remember how lucky you are to have an intelligently designed endoskeleton.

02-14-2002, 09:07 AM	#13
Dr Rick Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,393	The endoskeleton we possess is not a particularly good design, either. It's brittle, prone to separation and degeneration at the joints, and affords very little protection for some important structures such as the spinal cord.

02-14-2002, 09:18 AM	#14
Oolon Colluphid Contributor Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Alibi: ego ipse hinc extermino Posts: 12,591	Oh all right... Oolon

02-16-2002, 08:01 AM	#15
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	However, our internal skeleton is much more scalable than an external one, and it does not get molted. The largest arthropod is likely some eurypterid (Paleozoic sea scorpion); some are known that are 2 meters (over 6 feet) long. The largest living one may However, by the standards of vertebrate gigantism, that is a shrimp. IMO, the real difficulty with molting is what happens when the animal has shed its old skin and its new skin has yet to harden -- a window of vulnerability.

02-16-2002, 08:20 AM	#16
pug846 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,587	Oolon, you are forgetting one thing. We were all perfectly designed...but after the fall...uh..somehow...adam and eve and their free choice to eat the fruit...uh...changed the very genetics of every animal...somehow...and so it was adam and eve really and not God... Adam and Eve: The Ultimate Geneticists.

02-18-2002, 05:55 AM	#18
Free Thinkr Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,379	Oooh, oooh.. I can answer this one! In short, yes. Try making two spiders out of clay. First, make one real small, then try a huge one. You'll notice that the large one's legs can't support the weight. This is a disadvantage of an exoskelaton, and a reason we never have to worry about the horrible planet depicted in "Starship Troopers."

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