Nic Tamzek

<a href="http://www.evolutiondeceit.com/" target="_blank">http://www.evolutiondeceit.com/</a>

Slick site.

You know, someone should do an estimate of creationist vs. creationist sites and approximate how much money has been spent on nice looking graphics, etc. It's gotta be 100 to 1 creo:evo.

'Course, it's content that matters, but still...

nic

Nic Tamzek

I think Yahya may have come up with this bit without stealing it from creos:

So, if a tree falls in the forest and the sound goes through walls but not through your head because you are a thick-skulled creationist whose opinions on the transmission of sound are not worth listening to, even though sounds are heard by ears not brain tissue anyway, does &lt;kabloom&gt;

[head explodes due to incoherance overload]

nic
<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

lpetrich

That's absurd, because sound can certainly pass through the brain -- it simply is not perceived as it is passing through.

Lizard

I understand the "intelligent design" folks are actively courting Muslim fundamentalists. I guess the idea is that anybody who's anti-evolution is on the right side. I think it's frightening.

Nic Tamzek

Is there any connection between Yahya and this guy:

There is a quite long and uncritical review of Yahya here at the Center for Islam and Science page...

<a href="http://www.cis-ca.org/voices/h/Harun%20Yahya-f.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cis-ca.org/voices/h/Harun%20Yahya-f.htm</a>

nic

Albion

And how about this one, "The Science Research Foundation." The title has you fooled for about two seconds.

<a href="http://www.srf-tr.org/" target="_blank">http://www.srf-tr.org/</a>

MrDarwin

Look who else is in town. Coincidence???

<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18299-2002Aug30.html" target="_blank">True Believers: Televangelist Benny Hinn Turns MCI Center Into a Revival Tent For a Healing Crusade</a>

James

Check this out folks!!!!.........

[Albanian-UK] : Life Story of Adnan Oktar (Harun Yahya)
Kreshnik Cela k_cela at yahoo.com
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 02:40:29 -0800 (PST)

Who is Harun Yahya?

Nowadays, both Islamic and Non-Islamic instutions are
under an e-mail bombardment mentioning about a person
called 'Harun Yahya'.

In these messages, Adnan Oktar (Harun Yahya is a
pen-name) is mentioned as a 'world renown and
respected scholar' who has devoted himself to writing
and promoting scientific and faith-related subjects
such as theory of evolution and miracles of God. You
might be receiving such messages from his followers,
offering collaboration, help or cooperation. These
messages highly praise Oktar, introduce him as a
respected 'scientist' who virtually has publications
in incredibly diverse areas of interest (actually he
is not a university graduate).

As a result of this email bombardment, and through
successful aggressive internet 'marketing', much of
the international world knows this person as presented
in these messages (including some authors at New
Scientist). But unfortunately the facts are different.


The fact is that, publications of this person and his
foundation (Science Research Foundation) has recently
banned and closed in Turkey. Most sect members have
been sent to court. This was in no way due to their
Islamic and scientific activities, but due to crimes
such as blackmailing, threating, possession of
unlicensed weapons and sexual intorcourse with minors.

About three years ago, upon complaints of victims and
many years suspicion, Turkish police has raided
residences of this group. The findings at the houses
and testimonies of the group members were shocking.

Under the mask of promoting Islam and scientific
facts, the group members had been found to commit many
crimes. These crimes included blackmailing, possession
of unlicensed weapons and sexual intercourse with
individuals under age 18. In the testimonies they gave
at the police, shocking facts have been revealed.

The head of the group, Adnan Oktar (recorded by police
cameras, leaked and shown on Turkish TV channels such
as Kanal D, ATV, Star) confessed that they have done
many blackmailing acts against people who they
regarded as an obstacle. These people included Emin
Colasan, and Fatih Altayli, regular writers at
newpaper Hurriyet, who questioned some of their
unlawful acts such as bribing the municipalty of
Ankara.

Also politicians such as Celal Adan (Member of the
Parliament), Mesut Yilmaz (former Prime Minister of
Turkey) have been victims of this group. Oktar's group
have arranged fake (photomontage) photos of Mesut
Yilmaz in Freemason clothes and ceremonies, and
arranged a fake certificate of Freemasonary of him.
This fake was taken serious and was published in
several pro-Islamic newspapers (without knowing it was
a fake), and the PM has been put into a hard position
during his government.

Also to name, a fashion model called Ebru Simsek have
been blackmailed, and slandered to be a prostitute
claimed in fax messages that were sent to hundereds of
different locations like newspapers, TV channels,
major business companies, foreign consulates,
government offices etc. just because she has rejected
to be with Adnan Oktar.

Also members of this group was found to be working at
GSM companies, and watching communications of their
'enemies'.

But Oktar's and his group members' most shocking
activities are not these. In the sudden raid, 20 women
and 2 men other than him was found to be at his
residence. Most of the females were under the age 18,
(Oktar is his middle 40's) and they confessed they had
sexual intercourse with Oktar and members of his sect.

In his testimony, Oktar has said that what he did was
not a crime against law because the intercourse was
done with girls' own consent. And Turkish laws allowed
this. Secondly, Oktar said he thinks this intercourse
was also religiously permissable because he and his
followers did not have a 'real sexual intercourse with
these girls'.

What he and his followers did was only 'anal and oral'
sex. In other words he said that they preferred these
kinds of sexual intercourse because according to
Koran, he claimed, these kinds of acts have not been
said to be impermissable without marriage. According
to their interpretation 'vaginal' intercourse was
'haram' but 'anal and oral intercourse' was 'halal'
when not married.

These findings have been published in most read
respected newspapers and television channels in Turkey
for days and created great reaction. These people have
obtained great dislike and disgust from the society.
After the police operation the activities of these
people have been silenced and most of them were taken
to courts (special courts called National Security
Court)

So you wonder what happened in the end?

Science Research Foundation has been closed. Adnan
Oktar (aka Harun Yahya), and about 40 of his sect
members have been taken to the court and judged. They
have rejected their initial testimonies, because they
claimed those were taken under torture.

The juridical process have lasted over 2 years, and as
a result of all the complainants' taking their
complaints back (because they were threated, offered
money etc. by the sect members), most cases against
these people have been dismissed. Only two of them
were sent to jail for 1 year (they are also out by
now). As a result, now they are all free as birds and
they are writing deceiving email messages to honest
people like you, or posting propaganda messages to
newsgroups or searching for collaboration of new
people who are not aware of the facts. These people
are 'cleared' against law, but they are not 'cleared'
in their conscience and in the eyes of the society.

I am writing this message to you, because I want you
to be aware of the facts. These people will not be on
the scene in Turkey for some time, because their
activities, even their appearance creates public
disgust. Acknowledging this, they have directed their
interest to international, foreign arena where their
being 'infamous' is not well known.

Let me give an example (translation) from the Turkish
Ministry of Foreign Relations site at
<a href="http://www.mfa.gov.tr/turkce/grupc/cb/1999/11/19111991.htm" target="_blank">http://www.mfa.gov.tr/turkce/grupc/cb/1999/11/19111991.htm</a>

' Adnan Hodja (Oktar) in Prison.

Adnan Hodja and 8 followers, whose residences looked
liked artillery warehouses have been arrested and sent
to Kartal prison.
..
In the houses and offices of Adnan Hodja and his men,
many weapons and documents have been obtained. It has
been reported that this organization was about to
blackmail many political leaders and journalists. It
has been claimed that Adnan Hodja and his followers
have been commiting blackmail by photomontaging porn
CD's and pictures.
...

'

If you want a proof for these acts, please start by
visiting the links at the end of this document. Much
detailed information about this hatred group exists in
Turkish if you search the web for 'Adnan Oktar' or
'Adnan Hoca' at <a href="http://www.google.com" target="_blank">http://www.google.com</a> or
<a href="http://www.altavista.com." target="_blank">http://www.altavista.com.</a> You'll notice that most
first hit sites are arranged by the members of this
group for propaganda.

Please be informed, be aware of the facts.

If you need further information, you can contact me at

tolerance@my-muslim.net

Best Regards,
Dr. Ahmed Baysal

Some related links:

Police cracks down on obscure sect -
<a href="http://www.turkeyupdate.com/adnan.htm" target="_blank">http://www.turkeyupdate.com/adnan.htm</a>

Untitled
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/athens/cyprus/8732/baving.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/athens/cyprus/8732/baving.html</a>

Untitled
<a href="http://www.axt.org.uk/antisem/archive/archive1/turkey/turkey.htm" target="_blank">http://www.axt.org.uk/antisem/archive/archive1/turkey/turkey.htm</a>

TRIAL OF ADNAN OKTAR'S GROUP STARTS
<a href="http://www.hri.org/news/turkey/anadolu/2000/00-04-07.anadolu.html" target="_blank">http://www.hri.org/news/turkey/anadolu/2000/00-04-07.anadolu.html</a>

Anti-Semitism Worldwide 1999/2000 - Turkey
<a href="http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw99-2000/turkey.htm" target="_blank">http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw99-2000/turkey.htm</a>

Anadolu Agency: News in English, 99-11-21 (Official
News Agency of Turkey)
<a href="http://www.hri.org/news/turkey/anadolu/1999/99-11-21.anadolu.html" target="_blank">www.hri.org/news/turkey/anadolu/1999/99-11-21.anadolu.html</a>


'Adnan Hoca' released on bail
<a href="http://www.turkishdailynews.com/old_editions/08_05_00/dom.htm#d3" target="_blank">http://www.turkishdailynews.com/old_editions/08_05_00/dom.htm#d3</a>

SCIENCE AND RESEARCH FOUNDATION'S DEFENCE
<a href="http://msanews.mynet.net/MSANEWS/200003/20000320.13.html" target="_blank">http://msanews.mynet.net/MSANEWS/200003/20000320.13.html</a>

{edited to fix link}

[ September 15, 2002: Message edited by: scigirl ]</p>

scigirl

Hello James G Boakes, and welcome to infidels.

Feel free to introduce yourself here if you like:

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43</a>

Thanks for the info about Harun Yahya. Wow, first Dr Dino, now this guy? Whoever will YECS turn to for comfort and spiritual guidance? Maybe they should try Dakwins!

scigirl

James

[ November 06, 2002: Message edited by: James ]</p>