Charlie

"No one is good-- except God alone" ??

Job 1:1 "There was a man... who name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright."
Genesis 7:1 "And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation."
Luke 1:6 "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."


Is God good, or evil ??

Isaiah 45:7 "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."
Jeremiah 18:11 "Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you."
Ezekiel 20:25,26 "I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgements whereby they should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord."


And how about those commandments?

"Thou shalt not kill." ??

Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side,...and slay every man his brother,...companion,...neighbor."
I Samuel 15:2,3,7,8 "Thus saith the Lord... Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass... "

"Thou shalt not steal." ??

Luke 19:29-34 "[Jesus] sent two of his disciples, Saying, Go ye into the village... ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither. And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him... And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt? And they said, The Lord hath need of him."


"Thou shalt not bear false witness." ??

I Kings 22:23 "The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."
II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

Charlie

Mageth

Strange. What he says we would do is very similar to what the biblical god tells his followers to do.

That's one of the things I pointed out to him.

fatherphil

complicated, isn't it charlie.

Demigawd

Wow. I'm glad Fatherphil wasn't a patron of the 7/11 I worked at while I was in college. I met quite a few Jesuses when I pulled the night shift. Funny, in a sad way, how psychosis can fuel conviction to the intensity of delusions-of-grandeur. Imagine similar encounters with schizophrenia 2000 years ago.

wildernesse

Respond to what? And, just because Christians aren't stepping all over themselves to post that either a) non-christians can be good people or b) the opposite of a doesn't mean they are ignoring the thread on purpose.

Good grief, every thread with dialogue between Christians and non-Christians usually has someone offering bait like this to hot-heads like me (even if half the time I've responded--but apparently my usual posts aren't Christian enough for most to register that a Christian has responded).

I'm just tired of saying, "Don't you think that's a generalization?" about Christians being anti-environment and pro-theocracy etc.

--tibac

Charlie

Yes fatherphil.. and I would also use other words such as contradictory, unbelievable...

Tell me, how are you able to accept it?
Do you withhold your reason and rational thinking and rely totally on faith? Do you pick and choose which parts you want to believe and which parts you do not believe?

Also, why would God make it so complicated anyway?
Sincerely,
Charlie

Charlie

Hi wildernesse!
Good to see you! Yes it can certainly get 'crazy' when you have people talking about such a touchy subject: religion vs atheism. By our very nature we each tend to want to convert the other to see the truth of our side. Humans are also a hostile creature and it becomes easy to mock, make fun of, and even become frustrated and angry when others don't see the truth of our views. (I've seen both Christians and Atheist get very fired up to the point of being rude.. heck I've probably been there myself.) And yes there are often a lot of generalizations made.

Also, when you say your usual posts aren't Christian enough... this may be because of your wonderful openmindedness!
So even though I'm from the other side, you go get'em girl!
Charlie

wildernesse

Hello, Charlie!

Yes, I think it must be human nature to want other people to understand you. I'm not really frustrated at non-understanding--but rather lack of acknowledgement that Christianity isn't as fabulous a brainwashing device as many portray it. . .otherwise we'd all be a bit more alike, don't you think?

It's good to see you back, I haven't read any of your posts in a bit--maybe I just haven't been looking in the right places.

--tibac

Charlie

hmmm.. I find myself in some what of agreement with you. Perhaps Christianity, as you say, is not such a brainwashing device. I can see how perhaps more to blame are humans themselves. Human beings have the ability to believe, the unbelievable! Many humans 'want' to believe. Some even feel that they need to believe. If it weren't for the fact that humans also have the ability to reason and think rationally, then I would be tempted to lable human beings as a "superstitious" species. Actually now that I think about it, I would have to say yes, for the most part, humans are a superstitious species. Also, I would like to think that humans will someday evolve to the point that they would no longer be superstitious, however I'm not sure this can happen as long has we have the power to "believe" things without requiring verifiable proof. Anyway, I would have to agree that it is not that Christianity is such a powerful brainwashing device, but rather that humans are easily deceived and convinced of things that have no truth in our reality. This is seen not just with religion, but also with pyramid schemes, psychic & palm readings, telemarketers, con-artists and people deceiving other people to get their money.

However, when it comes to children then I think there is a problem. Religious indoctrination of children is brainwashing, imho. I wish all children were taught to use their own minds, to reason and think rationally for themselves. Then, if they want to believe in a god, fine!
What do you think?
Charlie

wildernesse

Actually, I doubt there is much pressure on us evolution-wise to evolve away from religion. It's not stopping most people from finding mates and mating, and actually many/most religions encourage finding someone and having children as well as being part of the social structure of bringing those children up.

I do not use the word indoctrination when I talk about parents teaching their children what they believe, for the simple reason that I feel the word implies that the indoctrinators know that their worldview is wrong and are instructing their children in order to manipulate and control them. I do not see the religious instruction I had as a child as any such thing. Same goes for the term brainwashing.

--tibac