Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 12-22-2002, 10:18 AM

Rad - if you think my extract distorted your meaning, please post the entire sentence and compare them.

Your misreading of Madison comes from not realizing that he was an advocate speaking to committed Christians. Of course, he is going to tell them that separation is in their best interests! He was also telling them not to turn around and ask for government aid.

But I am still waiting for you to make some positive statement about what policy you want to see implemented. Do you really want to have goverment agents push their version of Christianity on juvenile delinquents in Los Angeles? Start a thread on that.

But in the meantime, have a Merry Christmas and give this debate stuff a rest, OK?

Radorth · 12-22-2002, 03:56 PM

140 replies later:

"We don't really care and you have nothing to say anyway."

You fellas do look a bit tired though...

I'll give you a day off so you can shop for all your Christian friends.

Rad

Radorth · 12-22-2002, 04:10 PM

I know you'll keep the thread open Toto, since you raised two new issues for me to respond to.

Rad

lpetrich · 12-22-2002, 05:16 PM

This stuff more properly belongs in Evolution/Creation, but I'll answer it here.

Radorth:
(evolution)
But you don't teach it as a theory, nor do you point out the self-contradictions in it which nobody but a Phd biologist could begin to reconcile.

So evolutionary biology is like the Bible?

(Now evolutionsists are saying an animal crawled INTO the water, not out of it. LOL!)

I'm not sure what Radorth has in mind about that.

It is effectively an "origins" teaching

Only creationists try to turn "origins" into some special metaphysical category.

with modern evidence Darwin said would be fatal to it,

I'm waiting to see it.

and a simplistic belief system Hitler and Stalin used to justify their genocidal rampages.

Which is male-bovine excrement, pure and simple. Evolutionary biology is not some moral statement to the effect that might makes right, and neither of those two gentlemen cared very much for evolutionary biology.

I also note that this view was mentioned by Plato in his Republic over 2000 years before Darwin had lived!

I do hope when the AA's and "humanists" take over, they still allow preaching in public parks so gang members have options. I doubt they will, as they will see a violation of the "wall" the founders would have laughed at.

Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo. (sarcasm)

Radorth · 12-22-2002, 05:58 PM

Skeptics debate rule # 17:

Have the last word at all costs, even if you have to raise new issues, or post something completely off-topic.

Quote:

I'm waiting to see it.

You will, another day on an appropriate thread.

Rad

Fred Flintstonensis · 12-22-2002, 06:23 PM

Quote:

You said in the other thread that your own studies have revealed that Washington was a Christian. Audacious shitstain! You think your little internet research enabled you to learn more about Washington than his aquaintances? The minister at the church he attended? Two biographers who interviewed his relatives and friends, read his letters and searched his library? All of these people who knew him and said he was a deist know less about Washington than you? Your research on the internet is superior to interviews with his family and friends?

Which I then corrected by saying:

Quote:

I mis-spoke. I should not have said that all those people knew him (Washington) and said he was a deist. I should have said all those people knew him and none of them said that he was a christian.

You still have yet to acknowledge that I immediately corrected myself on that point. You still dishonestly try to hold me to that erroneous statement.

Now tell me, Audacious Shitstain, where in these words, or in any of my words have I said that I know that Washington was deist, or not a Christian?

I am not your "fellow hypocrite" because:

a) I am not a hypocrite and
b) You aren't either, you are simply a fucking liar.

Yellum Notnef · 12-22-2002, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth:
<strong>

I'll give you a day off so you can shop for all your Christian friends.

Rad</strong>

I don`t have any Christian friends. I`m sure I have some online Christian acquaintances and I`m positive I`ve had business transactions with some,but they are not people I know well enough to be buying presents for anyway.

I`ve somehow gone through life without acquiring any Christian friends. Some would say I`m just lucky,but I think it has more to do with the fact that I don`t hang around churches,AA meetings and anti-abortion rallies.

Just figured I`d let you know how totally wrong you are AGAIN.

Happy holidays you old curmudgeon.

[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Fenton Mulley ]</p>

Fred Flintstonensis · 12-23-2002, 12:35 PM

Quote:

No skeptic said that the evidence was slim or that Washington was "enigmatic". You are misrepresenting both sides.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem, Radorth? When did I say that any skeptic (aside from me) said that the evidence was slim or that Washington was enigmatic? You are misrepresenting me--AGAIN!!! I have yet to misrepresent anyone.

Also, what are you, 12 years old? What an absurd statement that I would last 3 minutes in the ID room!

1st off, that is obviously some kind of elliptical way of saying that my performance here has been less than adequate. It is surprising that you would feel that way since the very best retort you have come up with against my posts have been either distortions or things like "blah blah blah". You have not sufficiently addressed a single thing i have said here.

2d, even if I had done miserably against you, that will give you no indication of how well I would do in another subject. I might be a biologist who has a degree in Philosophy. I might be a former creationist writer and former member of the ICR who took some courses in actual biology--REAL biology--and was compelled to convert to the other side. You don't know. What you are saying is analogous to someone saying, "well he failed history so he must suck at Home Ec too". I guarentee you that in real time (not on an internet message board) I have out-debated creationists for over 2 decades, however if you debate creationism and ID as poorly and dishonestly as you have this subject, you would win hands down. It would be like a boxing match where one guy follows the rules and the other brings a gun. You would win, just not honestly. This is just another red herring.

3d, as far as you finding it funny that I said that unlike you, we are nice. Let me invite you to read how you and I became engaged in this thing. I politely posted a definition of deism with one sentence highlighted. You reacted as if I had kicked you in the nuts. When nice people encounter a hysterical, immature, frantic and dishonest person they treat him just like we are treating you. If you and I were having a discussion over coffee and you suddenly smacked me in the face, I would reciprocate and I could do so and still consider myself to be a nice person. I don't believe in that turn the other cheek shit.

4th. this is getting old fast. I apologize to everyone for dragging this along like I have. I accept 49% of the responsibility. Sigh. Moderator please close this thread. This is not a debate, this is just us being misrepresented over and over again. Notice that after I corrected my earlier mistatement and then pointed out the corrected, modified version radorth still insisted on holding me to that earlier misstatement. Do we know anything about Radorth? Is he in middle school? we are really, really wasting our time and energy with this guy.

Toto · 12-23-2002, 01:04 PM

As I said, I don't want to close the thread and have Rad whining about being shut up.

Let me take a poll: who here thinks that RadOrth has made a point that hasn't been rebutted? Who thinks that Rad is just a troll wasting our time? Who can tell me what Rad really believes about separation of church and state?

All I get from Rad is a lot of hysterical gushing about how skeptics discount the number of Christians among the founders. But it is clear Rad does not understand what Deism was, and can't figure out why Christians would support strict separation. Finding one error in one argument that one atheist made at one point in history does not prove his case, however much he would like it to.

But if there's someone out there who thinks he's made a point, I'd like to know about it.

Daggah · 12-23-2002, 03:54 PM

Radorth is DEFINITELY a troll. He's proven it time and again.

Oh and Radorth, your "Darwin said it would be fatal" quote is a misquote of Darwin. How...typically honest of you.

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12-22-2002, 10:18 AM	#141
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Rad - if you think my extract distorted your meaning, please post the entire sentence and compare them. Your misreading of Madison comes from not realizing that he was an advocate speaking to committed Christians. Of course, he is going to tell them that separation is in their best interests! He was also telling them not to turn around and ask for government aid. But I am still waiting for you to make some positive statement about what policy you want to see implemented. Do you really want to have goverment agents push their version of Christianity on juvenile delinquents in Los Angeles? Start a thread on that. But in the meantime, have a Merry Christmas and give this debate stuff a rest, OK?

12-22-2002, 03:56 PM	#142
Radorth Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,872	140 replies later: "We don't really care and you have nothing to say anyway." You fellas do look a bit tired though... I'll give you a day off so you can shop for all your Christian friends. Rad

12-22-2002, 04:10 PM	#143
Radorth Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,872	I know you'll keep the thread open Toto, since you raised two new issues for me to respond to. Rad

12-22-2002, 05:16 PM	#144
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	This stuff more properly belongs in Evolution/Creation, but I'll answer it here. Radorth: (evolution) But you don't teach it as a theory, nor do you point out the self-contradictions in it which nobody but a Phd biologist could begin to reconcile. So evolutionary biology is like the Bible? (Now evolutionsists are saying an animal crawled INTO the water, not out of it. LOL!) I'm not sure what Radorth has in mind about that. It is effectively an "origins" teaching Only creationists try to turn "origins" into some special metaphysical category. with modern evidence Darwin said would be fatal to it, I'm waiting to see it. and a simplistic belief system Hitler and Stalin used to justify their genocidal rampages. Which is male-bovine excrement, pure and simple. Evolutionary biology is not some moral statement to the effect that might makes right, and neither of those two gentlemen cared very much for evolutionary biology. I also note that this view was mentioned by Plato in his Republic over 2000 years before Darwin had lived! I do hope when the AA's and "humanists" take over, they still allow preaching in public parks so gang members have options. I doubt they will, as they will see a violation of the "wall" the founders would have laughed at. Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo. (sarcasm)

12-23-2002, 01:04 PM	#149
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	As I said, I don't want to close the thread and have Rad whining about being shut up. Let me take a poll: who here thinks that RadOrth has made a point that hasn't been rebutted? Who thinks that Rad is just a troll wasting our time? Who can tell me what Rad really believes about separation of church and state? All I get from Rad is a lot of hysterical gushing about how skeptics discount the number of Christians among the founders. But it is clear Rad does not understand what Deism was, and can't figure out why Christians would support strict separation. Finding one error in one argument that one atheist made at one point in history does not prove his case, however much he would like it to. But if there's someone out there who thinks he's made a point, I'd like to know about it.

12-23-2002, 03:54 PM	#150
Daggah Banned Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Deployed to Kosovo Posts: 4,314	Radorth is DEFINITELY a troll. He's proven it time and again. Oh and Radorth, your "Darwin said it would be fatal" quote is a misquote of Darwin. How...typically honest of you.

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