Eudaimonist

An a nontheist, I see nothing wrong with experiencing awe or wonder (or other mystical feelings) at the Big Questions. I simply don't take such feelings as implying the existence of God or the supernatural.

Nor should you have to! Emotion and meaning are part of being human. You don't have to experience all facts or questions in the same way.

Mageth

science is unable to answer those "big questions" so there is no known "fact" about it.

Perhaps, perhaps not. In other words, "science is unable to answer those "big questions"" is another fact we don't know. Time will tell. In the meantime, you are correct in that there is no known "fact" about it - neither fact provided by science nor fact provided by theism.

one of two things will happen after you die:

1. You will be a supernaturalist
2. You will cease to exist

And with what knowledge I have to work with so far, #2 appears to be my probable fate, and thus is my working assumption.

If I'm wrong, then cool, I get bonus lives. But it's not something worth worrying about.

but this we know for sure will happen:

Your atheism will cease.

That in itself is a "fact" we don't know. Life after death without god is a possibility you can't rule out. Ever heard of reincarnation?

the_cave

Forum should be called "Atheist Aesthetics". Instead of my handle! Sorry this can't be fixed.

keyser_soze

Who was it that said something to the effect of "It's not what I don't know about the bible that scares me, it's what I do know"?

I try to rationally and compassionately see the universe. The god in your bible? Hostile, malevolent, petty. The universe? Sure it's hostile, but it follows more along the lines of an old poem I memorized in grade school.

A man said to the universe, "Sir, I exist!".
"However", replied the universe;
"that fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."

That's the universe. Enormous, cold, sometimes desolate, but neutral. It is not malevolent like your god, not because it really feels no compassion towards us, but rather because it is unknowing of even our existence. We really are the insignificant little beings that all theists are afraid of admitting too. Religion is what the weak minded use to fill that nagging little hole in their minds that pops up when they think about LATER. The part of them that is afraid to cease existance. It's comforting, this warm little blanket called religion, that some warm and fuzzy father figure is there to protect you from the big bad universe, and to give you this golly-gee great life after the difficult time in this reality....But it's a crutch for children, some just never outgrow it.

xian

ok, I'll rephrase it: Your naturalism will cease.

how's that?

Mageth

ok, I'll rephrase it: Your naturalism will cease.

how's that?

Better, but if I wanted to quibble, I could say that whatever I experienced in such a state would be "natural," i.e. a natural process that we just don't know about.

MrDarwin

Why should these ideas be any more overwhelming than the idea that there is a vast, incomprehensible intelligence that is everywhere, even inside your own head, and knows everything, including your own thoughts, and could squash you like a bug if it so chose?

But yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. The existence of the universe, in fact the existence of existence itself, are things that I consider mysteries that science will never fully understand. These are the things that make my head hurt to think about. But that doesn't stop me from regarding the universe as a very big, very amazing, and very interesting thing, of which I am a very tiny, very finite part, but at the same time be amazed at the fact of my own consciousness and self-awareness. That a tiny bit of the vast, impersonal, and unconscious universe could blink itself awake into a sentient being is, to me, one of the most marvelous--and humbling--things an atheist could ever ponder.

Biff the unclean

Who was it that said…
Most people are bothered by those passages of Scripture they do not understand, but the passages that bother me are those I do understand.
-- Mark Twain, quoted from Barbara Schmidt, ed., "Mark Twain Quotations, Newspaper Collections, & Related Resources"
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science is unable to answer those "big questions" so there is no known "fact" about it
This fear of facts, this terror of science is another attribute of Xians that convinces me that they are self deluded.

That I have no information about the "big questions" is a fact in itself. That religion, which suffers from the exact same lack of information that I do, supplies answers anyway informs me that religions are not telling the truth.
The fact that religions so stress the idea that they get to say what morality is only reinforces the notion that they are liars trying to cover up their unfounded claims.

keyser_soze

Thanks biff, I thought it was twain, but I couldn't remember off the top of my head, and was too flighty to actually look it up.

Biff the unclean

If you ever need anything like that Cliff Walker over at www.positiveatheism.org has an enormous file of quotes and scary quotes