Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Totalitarianist · 05-11-2003, 12:06 AM

From the book Another View of Stalin:

Quote:

I was already a confirmed anti-Stalinist at the age of seventeen ....
The idea of killing Stalin filled my thoughts and feelings ....
We studied the technical possibilities of an attack .... We even practiced.
If they had condemned me to death in 1939, their decision would have been just. I had made up a plan to kill Stalin; wasn�t that a crime?
When Stalin was still alive, I saw things differently, but as I look back over this century, I can state that Stalin was the greatest individual of this century, the greatest political genius. To adopt a scientific attitude about someone is quite different from one's personal attitude.

Alexander Zinoviev,
1993 [a]

You can read the rest of the preface and introduction to Another View of Stalin here: http://www.katardat.org/Stalin/EN/te...s-ENintro.html

lpetrich · 05-11-2003, 01:55 AM

I'm at a loss for words, since I consider Stalin extremely evil.

AtomSmasher · 05-11-2003, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lpetrich
I'm at a loss for words, since I consider Stalin extremely evil.

This is not unusual, there are people revere Hitler and other mass murderers as well.

Totalitarianist · 05-11-2003, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AtomSmasher
This is not unusual, there are people revere Hitler and other mass murderers as well.

LOL! Since when does punishing criminals qualify as mass murder? Stalin PUNISHED people for their CHOICES; Hitler MURDERED people (i.e. the Jews) based upon their race alone. They could not choose.

Half of Russians today believe that Stalin did more good than bad.

Totalitarianist · 05-11-2003, 02:28 AM

Quote:

"I think there are two �swords�: one is Lenin and the other Stalin. The sword of Stalin has now been discarded by the Russians. Gomulka and some people in Hungary have picked it up to stab at the Soviet Union and oppose so-called Stalinism.
" The imperialists also use this sword to slay people with. Dulles, for instance, has brandished it for some time. This sword has not been lent out, it has been thrown out. We Chinese have not thrown it out.
"As for the sword of Lenin, hasn�t it too been discarded to a certain extent by some Soviet leaders? In my view, it has been discarded to a considerable extent. Is the October Revolution still valid? Can it still serve as the example for all countries? Khrushchev�s report at the Twentieth Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union says it is possible to seize power by the parliamentary road, that is to say, it is no longer necessary for all countries to learn from the October Revolution. Once this gate is opened, by and large Leninism is thrown away."
Mao Zedong,
November 15, 1956

That a famous Soviet dissident, now living in �reunited� Germany, a man who in his youth was so fanatically anti-Stalin that he planned a terrorist attack against him, who filled entire books with vehement denunciation of Stalin�s political line in every possible way, that such a man would, in his old age, pay homage to Stalin is remarkable.

Quote:

The media never stop reminding us that there are still, unfortunately, a few Stalinist outposts on the planet. Fid�l Castro holds his little island like a Stalinist dinosaur. Kim Il Sung surpassed Stalin in the area of the cult of the personality. The Chinese butchers of Tien An Men Square are worthy successors of Stalin. A few dogmatic Vietnamese still have pictures of H� Chi Minh and of Stalin. In short, the four countries that still uphold a socialist line are excommunicated from the �civilized� world in the name of Stalin. This incessant clamor is designed to bring out and reinforce `anti-Stalinist' bourgeois and petit-bourgeois currents in these countries.

Quote:

In our judgment of all the episodes during the period 1923--1953, we must struggle to understand completely the political line held by the Bolshevik Party and by Stalin. We cannot accept any criticism of Stalin's work without verifying all primary data pertaining to the question under debate and without considering all versions of facts and events, in particular the version given by the Bolshevik leadership.

Quote:

In all capitalist countries, the economic, political and ideological pressure exerted by the bourgeoisie on Communists is incredibly strong. It is a permanent source of degeneration, of treason, of slow descent into the other camp. But every treacherous act requires ideological justification in the eyes of the one who is committing it. In general, a revolutionary who engages on the downward slope of opportunism �discovers the truth about Stalinism�.
He or she takes, as is, the bourgeois and anti-Communist version of the history of the revolutionary movement under Stalin. In fact, the renegades make no discovery, they simply copy the bourgeoisie's lies. Why have so many renegades �discovered the truth about Stalin� (to improve the Communist movement, of course), but none among them has �discovered the truth about Churchill�?
A discovery which would be much more important for �improving� the anti-imperialist struggle! Having a record of half a century of crimes in the service of the British Empire (Boer War in South Africa, terror in India, inter-imperialist First World War followed by military intervention against the new Soviet republic, war against Iraq, terror in Kenya, declaration of the Cold War, aggression against antifascist Greece, etc.), Churchill is probably the only bourgeois politician of this century to have equalled Hitler.

Quote:

In our judgment of all the episodes during the period 1923--1953, we must struggle to understand completely the political line held by the Bolshevik Party and by Stalin. We cannot accept any criticism of Stalin's work without verifying all primary data pertaining to the question under debate and without considering all versions of facts and events, in particular the version given by the Bolshevik leadership.

AtomSmasher · 05-11-2003, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Totalitarianist
LOL! Since when does punishing criminals qualify as mass murder? Stalin PUNISHED people for their CHOICES; Hitler MURDERED people (i.e. the Jews) based upon their race alone. They could not choose.

Half of Russians today believe that Stalin did more good than bad.

Stalin had 10 million political prisoners executed in the 1930s. He personally signed over 40,000 death warrants. I guess 1/5 of the Russian population were criminals who made bad CHOICES. Unfortunately, disagreeing with Stalin was one of those deadly CHOICES.

Totalitarianist · 05-11-2003, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AtomSmasher
Stalin had 10 million political prisoners executed in the 1930s.

LOL! Where is the evidence?

Quote:

He personally signed over 40,000 death warrants.

Ooh! He lawfully punished Nazis/Fascists/anti-Semites!! Who cares??

Quote:

I guess 1/5 of the Russian population were criminals who made bad CHOICES.

LOL! 1/5?? Where do you get that from?

Quote:

Unfortunately, disagreeing with Stalin was one of those deadly CHOICES.

And where is your evidence for this? We Skeptics need evidence.

The OP is about a BOOK. We are talking about a BOOK. Read the BOOK first before you make such silly comments. So as not to derail this thread, I urge you to comment on the BOOK.

Jat · 05-11-2003, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Totalitarianist
LOL! Where is the evidence?

Ooh! He lawfully punished Nazis/Fascists/anti-Semites!! Who cares??

LOL! 1/5?? Where do you get that from?

And where is your evidence for this? We Skeptics need evidence.

The OP is about a BOOK. We are talking about a BOOK. Read the BOOK first before you make such silly comments. So as not to derail this thread, I urge you to comment on the BOOK.

Stalin is also responsible for the Little Holocaust of the early 1930's when the USSR invaded the Ukraine and starved 1 million Ukrainians to death and drove many out, including my father and his parents.

It is apparent that you worship evil, so therefore you are evil and thus your opinion is irrelevant and the book is just revisionists garbage no different than those which deny the Jewish Holocaust. There is absolutely no doubt at all that Stalin was a monster. Even many years after his death people were still terrorifed of him.

Totalitarianist · 05-11-2003, 03:26 AM

Jat-

I suggest you do a little RESEARCH before you make such wild claims. You could start here:

http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/bookstore/commie.html
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill.../articles.html
http://www.marxists.org

Quote:

It is apparent that you worship evil, so therefore you are evil and thus your opinion is irrelevant and the book is just revisionists garbage no different than those which deny the Jewish Holocaust. There is absolutely no doubt at all that Stalin was a monster. Even many years after his death people were still terrorifed of him.

ad hominem blah blah blah blah.... I thought the mods deleted ad hominem?

lpetrich · 05-11-2003, 03:38 AM

I think that we ought to introduce Totalitarianist to the Holocaust deniers and to the defenders of Biblical genocide.

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05-11-2003, 01:55 AM	#2
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	I'm at a loss for words, since I consider Stalin extremely evil.

05-11-2003, 03:38 AM	#10
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	I think that we ought to introduce Totalitarianist to the Holocaust deniers and to the defenders of Biblical genocide.

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