Colander of Truth

You are exactly correct. There is a god, but it is hiding, as a test.

Colander of Truth

Very humorous, if unintended!

phillip millar

Hello Albert,

I realise you made this posting some time ago but being a relative newcomer to the site I have just come across it and decided to reply.

The Catholic Church to which you refer I assume is that organistation administered by the holy see in Rome. If my assumption is wrong please advise.

I do not wish to appear unkind or offensive, but if my reading of history is correct, this organistaion has presided over some of the most cruel barbarities. If you consider this kind of activity rational then you are right, the Catholic Church is rational, but it does have rather worrying implications in respect of words like 'traditional'.


I do believe the Catholic Church is consitent and is indeed of great antiquity having its roots (like many other religions)in the Chaldean mysteries. Attempting to put some sort of 'Christian' gloss over it is to do what the Christ accused the Pharisean sect of doing,- applying whitewash to sepulchres. An charnel house is still a mortuary no matter what color one paints it.

Best Regards

Phillip

John Page

Albert:

This doesn't make sense - 1) I haven't chosen a religion and 2) I haven't suggested choosing a religion is driven by choosing the people in that religion.
Others have posted better than on the rational consistency in these documents.

As I alluded in my previous post, why should I bet in favor of one of a bunch of inconsistent religions? Why shouldn't I bet on the chances of god being proven to be a figment of your imagination?

Cheers, John

fishbulb

Huh?

We know from a study of history that people believed in God. But only people in one part of the world. People in other parts of the world believed in different gods or spirits. There is no solid evidence to corroborate the correctness of these beliefs, only that they were widespread.

To say that most everyone in an area believed in God is not the same thing as saying that God exists. Many people believe that Christopher Columbus's voyage was considered foolish because it was expected he would fall off the edge of the Earth, but that doesn't mean that it is true. Every navigator of the time knew that the Earth was spherical, but that doesn't prevent people from taking a Bugs Bunny cartoon to be an authoritative account of history.

History has proven conclusively that the vast majority of gods people once believed in are in fact false. Given our track record of disproving the existence of gods, we are actually justified in assuming that every god is most likely ficticious unless we have evidence to the contrary.

Of course, if you believe that you have such evidence, Pascal's wager is irrelevant. This is the critical failing of the wager. It's purported purpose is to convince those who don't believe, but it is only convicing to those who already do. (And even then, many believers find the argument as unpersuasive and foolish as non-believers.)

Albert Cipriani

Dear Phillip,
The rationality of the Catholic Church is in relationship to its voluminous dogmas. What Catholics do is quite another thing. One need not search through history’s dark pages to discern the contradictions and cruelties of Catholic churchmen. Just take a look-see at the American bishops and their sex scandals today, and our pope that doesn’t defrock the lot of them.

In short, an organization’s rationality is not necessarily related to its member’s irrationality. – Sincerely, Albert the Traditional Catholic

phillip millar

Hello Albert and thank you for your reply.

Could you please clarify somthing for me? Could you confirm that the apparent activities of the Catholic system (I'm thinking in particular of the inquistions) were carried out rather by misguided individuals or groups of individuals withut endorsement by the 'Vicar of Christ' or the 'holy office' and contrary to the stated dogmas of the time ?


Best Regards

Phillip

Albert Cipriani

Dear Philip,
Anything that the Church does to this temporal world, with or without the pope’s blessing, constitutes a pastoral act, not a dogmatic act. This includes the Crusades and the Inquistions and most of the Vatican II council, which was pastoral.

Having said that, the abuses of the Inquisition were performed by the secular rulers. The Church’s role was purely inquisitional. The Church fulfilled its spiritual role in deciding whether or not the suspect was a heretic. The state then did what it did to the convicted heretic. The analogy would be a horse-race’s photo-finish. The Church’s photo experts arrive and make a determination. As a result of their conclusion, the losers riot.

There is no dogma against torture or slavery or holy wars. Dogmas concern matters of faith and morals, not the application of faith or morals to the sifting sands of our worthless temporal cultures. Dogmas concern eternal absolutes, not our relativistic situations. – Sincerely, Albert the Traditional Catholic

John Page

Did Albert just shoot himself in the foot or what?

Tenek

Oh wow, the Catholics are right because they're the oldest. I'm convinced now!

On a more serious note, I distrust the authority of the Catholic Church because of a) the idea the abortion is worse than child abuse b) the campaign to spread AIDS and other STD's through discouraging birth control of any sort and c) somebody with just as much reliable evidence has showed me the evil of the Catholic Church.