goody2shoes

Great reasoning by the infidels. Corrupt world leaders engage in great crimes against humanity. So you like to single out Hitler because he professed to be a catholic and he executed Jews. But you don't like to consider Stalin who was a professed atheist and executed significantly greater atrocities and also polished off an even greater number of Jews. Great thinking guys and gals!

Corrupt leaders (and most dictators are such) will use any excuse to further their power. Persecution of those of another religion is the same category as persecution because of nationality, race or any other discriminate. In the current atheistic rule of China having any religion at all can be an excuse for execution.

Goody

Thor Q. Mada

In the powerplay we are all killers. It is just that since religion as an organisation predates atheism, the number of victims is probably greater. Religion has just been hijacked by the power players more than atheism.
That is not only time related, but there is also the fact that if as a ruler, or organization, you hijack the supreme being, there is not limit anymore, because indeed, the god that never contracdicts is on your side. So whatever you do is well done.

hinduwoman

If you look specifically at the Hindu, Buddhist, Jaina, Sikh texts themselves you would not find anything that says about killing people of other religions. In fact all these were in practice very tolerant. It is the monotheistic religions that are convinced as the Chosen Ones they must purify the land.
But you can point out that when the status quo was threatened, the authorities got into the act into curbing the new religions: the Hindu kings often used the tactic of neglect and persecuting the leaders (they used it against Hindu reformers as well), while Buddhist kings cut down the prestige of Brahmins, and patronized the stupas.

Re Hindutva: they would not have risen had it been not for the Muslim and Christian problem. They get along swimmingly with Jews and Zorastrians, though they are foreign religions.

wade-w

You are missing the point here, goody2shoes. Nobody disagrees that Stalin and Mao killed millions. I'm sure that we all agree that these mass murders where abhorrent.

However, The topic of the paper is negative aspects of religion. Nikolai is asking about murder sanctioned by religion. Since, as you point out, Stalin and Mao were atheists their deeds are completely irrelevant to the discussion.

"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has..."
-- Martin Luther

goody2shoes

My apologies as to being unrelated to the discussion. My side point was that non-religion (or atheism) does not result in any better behavior. It's just what excuse people want to use.

Martin Luther also said that "reason is God's greatest gift to man". He liked to deal in paradox, I guess.

Goody


Goody

Rusting Car Bumper

You are suggeting a false dichotomy between Christianity and atheism. Actually theism and atheism are opposites. Chrsitianity is merely one form of theism. Atheism is no more a worldview with prescriptions than theism is a worldview with prescriptions.


And no. Hitler was a theist but its questionable whether he was a Christian. Thus, you are hoisitng a straw man.

Clearly, he appealled to Christianity and Christians in propoganda. One cannot ignore this. If he thought that he could on occasion appeal to Christians in order to accomplish his hideous goals then that say something about the listening Christians.

DC

Rusting Car Bumper

This is exactly my point. This is part of a narrative. It doesn't command those today to do this.

However, the Koran makes no such distinction.

DC

Autonemesis

But Christians claim their religion makes people better. In light of that, what a ringing endorsement of Christianity you just gave: makes 'em no better than Mao or Stalin. And I agree. Hitler was no better than Mao or Stalin, and unless you want to measure moral worth by counting the bodies, Hitler was no worse, either.

goody2shoes

What Christians that you know of make that claim?

I never heard it made by anyone other than the "infidels" on these posts. Only atheists claim that their philosophy -- or whatever you want to call it ---- makes for a better person, and only on these postings. Just a herd of followers "drinking their own bath-water".

Christianity is about a personal relationship with a loving God ..... not long-winded, philosophical emails about "who shot John" by people who do not even know how to personally engage the Creator of this universe.

Goody

Bree

Let's see...

The great majority of Christians (this probably doesn't include you, since you list yourself as "unorthodox Christian" in your profile) like to seclude themselves from non-believers and other Christians whom they deem as "bad" (True Christian vs. Non-True Christian). Most groups discourage a Christian marrying a non-Christian (similar to the protestregarding a Protestant marrying a Catholic), stating that the Bible says one must be "evenly yoked" to one's partner. There are several groups of Christians who believe that homeschooling (sometimes by the church, sometimes by the parents of the children) is the only way to go, as inter-mingling with secular children paves the road to hell. Still others seclude themselves completely and totally, having no friends or social interaction beyond the church.

Do these groups say "we're better than you" or advertise their superiority complex? No. But their actions speak volumes.

You can also get into the "I'm saved, your not" argument, but that's a loooong story...