Mageth

Plural nature, Yes; plural personalities, persons etc. No

So "Not my will, but thine" is mistranslated, and should read "Not my will, but my will"? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

A3

Hi Mageth,

"Plural nature, Yes; plural personalities, persons etc. No"
I'm sorry but you lost me here, where is the connection?
But we have a will which we can use any way we like. Everywhere you look it says: I stand at the door and knock" He is not forcing His will on anybody. If it were only His will there would be no use for the Bible and there would be no hell. But neither would there be human freedom, just dumb instinct.
Do you feel as if anything is forcing you in any way?
Regards
Adriaan

Mageth

I'm sorry but you lost me here, where is the connection?

I was referring to Luke 22:42, with Jesus "Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done." Sorry if that wasn't clear.

We were talking about the nature/plurality of god(s), correct? If the xian triune god's not plural personalities/persons, IMO this would translate to "Not my will, but my will." Two wills, two persons/personalities, at least where I come from.

Priapus

Well since I was raised in a JW household I probably have a different perspective on this. They always taught that Jesus/Jehovah, were in fact, separate entities (with the holy spirit simply being God's active force). They used the same scripture mentioned above to further this point and also (can't remember the scripture off hand) the account of Jesus chastizing a disciple for kneeling to him saying that such a display belongs to god. The J-Dubs also say that Jesus was synonomous with the ArchAngel Michael, meaning that Jesus/Michael was God's first creation and helpmate in creating everything else. So, hope that clears everything up!

Gawd, I can't understand how I used to believe all that stuff!

Sabine Grant

It would work in languages which offer three genders...not in those who do not.

A3

Hi Mageth,

“We were talking about the nature/plurality of god(s), correct? If the xian triune god's not plural personalities/persons, IMO this would translate to "Not my will, but my will." Two wills, two persons/personalities, at least where I come from. “

OK, I see your point. First of all the basic difference between Swedenborgianism and much of Orthodox Christianiy is that we believe in three aspects of one God or of one Divine Person. We strongly oppose any notion of plurality of persons in one God as that is spiritually or physically completely impossible.
Second, a fundamental phenomena during a temptation is that then God seems furthest removed from the one being tempted. (“Footprints in the Sand” poem?) And that applied to Jesus as well. Only at those times could one speak of a distance between Jesus and His Soul. All through His life Jesus was in one of two states, the Son of God or the son of Mary. The first is “glorification” and the other “exinanition” or emptying-out. When He was in the “Son of God” state He was teaching, healing and performing miracles. In His “son of Mary” state He was unaware He was the son of God and could then actually be tempted, get tired and feel totally alone.
He never gave in, never made a mistake and as He bore all human sin (not take it away) and won each victory He put off what He had from Mary in hereditary evil, and so doing He became more closer united with His Soul or ‘Father.’ The last and most severe temptation was on the cross and when He won that He became completely one with his Soul. Swedenborg says that temptation is nothing else than a good love that is being attacked by an evil one.
All this had one basic goal, to save the human race. This was accomplished by muzzling the power of the hells (without exterminating them) and so restore human freedom and redeem mankind which made salvation possible again. I think if He had not come we would have had another flood of evil.
There is a wonderful parallel between what He did for mankind and I think we are supposed to do for ourselves.

Regards
Adriaan

[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: A3 ]</p>