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Freethought & Rationalism ArchiveThe archives are read only. |
02-08-2002, 08:48 PM
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#151 |
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I think this thread has drifted far enough off the existence of God. I'm tempted to move it to RRP because Hilarius Jr is begging for it. But there is some potential for legit discussion still here, so Misc Religion Discussions, I suppose.
[ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: phlebas ]</p> |
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02-09-2002, 12:21 AM
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#152 | |||||||||||||
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The pain here runs deep, Helen--don't you feel it? You've called me out for being callous more than once; I'd like to return that courtesy. |
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02-09-2002, 12:35 AM
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#153 | ||
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In any event, even if I take the strongest Calvinism imaginable & leave everything up to God, etc., I see it as a bit callous not to be concerned for another's trials & tribulations. I sincerely hope that that is a misreading of one of your statements on my part, though. I really do think it is, but the tone of your posts is unusually hard to grasp at times. Quote:
I'm the one who convicted the others not to write you off as someone on 'their' side. This goes both ways, though, right? |
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02-09-2002, 01:16 AM
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#154 | |
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[ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]</p> |
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02-09-2002, 04:19 AM
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#155 | |
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Meta =>No I wasn't trying to express concern for atheists. I am concerned for RW. I am worried that he's in total despair and might kill himself. I think it's typical of these shallow little syophants to want to exploit other's pain to make themselves feel that they are winning something. They don't give a damn about him anymore than they do about religious people. They have these pious sounding counterfit platitiudes about being an extended family, let's see them loan each other money! Where are the atheist charity outfits? Where are the atheist world famine relief organizations? I don't have any concern for these mocking swine. They destroy the concern I had for them ages ago with continual mockery. But I care about RW because I know him personally. I have more understanding what's behind his decision than you or any of your fellow atheists do. I also have played the super extra enlightened Christian game. i'm the only Christiain who really understands how to relate to others and not be legalistic. No you are not! I doubt that you understand it all, I think what you understand of it basically amounts to being confussed about your beleiefs and pretending to sigh a lot. |
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02-09-2002, 04:35 AM
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#156 | ||||
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Meta =>Try to understand what chicken pie? You don't even know the guy. I know his real name, where he lives, his son's name, and some of the issues (althoug not all) that have led him to this point. That is total hypocracy to pretend that you have this super eragatory method of being commassionate just because you have less of grip on your theologcial understanding and don't like to argue intellectual points about the existence of God. You've called me out for being callous more than once; I'd like to return that courtesy. More sarcasm huh? And that is supposed to affect me how? Is this, to use your own words, 'humour mixed with pain [that] doesn't come out right, nor does it lessen any tensions'? I'm the one who convicted the others not to write you off as someone on 'their' side. This goes both ways, though, right? Oh for heaven's sake. You think people's opinions of me are formed by you? You have a very exaggerated impression of your own influence, in that case. Quote:
Meta =>The whole problem is that you think these forums which are designed (suppossedly) to argue quasi intelletual issues about the existence of God and the nature of religion are a place to work out your own tortured relationship with the chruch and that somehow you will come to terms with your problems of feeling unaccepted in a group by siding with atheists in mocking and destroying Christian belief. And that is your version of being open and honest and facing the issues and so forth. It's silly, childish and its not accomplishing anything. Like with all the other issues you get hold of, RW's life, his sanity his pain and just a means to the all important end of telling us how the chruch hurt you, ONE MORE TIME! you think I haven't been hurt by the chruch or by Chrsitains. O welcome to the club sweetheart! So what does that prove? Quote:
Meta => And what you feel is wall important and no one else feels anything right? you are the only one with feelings and the only one whose feelings matter.[/QUOTE] |
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02-09-2002, 04:53 AM
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#157 | ||||||
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Meta =>I didn't say we aren't going to love him anymore. But I was an atheist I never found any atheists with unconditional love, or any other kind for that matter. I've found a few Christians here and there with it. True the vast majority are clueless about it, but some have it. No so with my experince of atheists. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) people who would be willing to die for him if worse case senerios of persecutation came true -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote:
Meta =>That's a dehumanizing/"demonizing the other" kind of comment and I'm sure it will serve you well in the great tribulation so you can pretend that the concentration camps don't matter. But its stupid because obvioiusly people are still human and still love life. Being alive is what life is about. Only the atheist straw man version of christianity says that this life doesn't matter, the chruch never said that. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) eternal life -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- promises, perhaps; empty words, in the end. Meta =>Bedside the point wheather you think its true or not. The issue is what is he leaving and what he gaining? All we can do is assume the self definitions of the two groups and compare them. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) unconditional forgiveness for all past deeds going back to earliest days (and forgiveness in such a way that all wrong doings are truely forgiven not just imagined to be forgiven). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Meta =>Ignorance of so amuzing. That is such a strawman argument. We have to compare what the two groups claim for themselves right? Besides if you knew anything about psychology you would know about the studies of Karl Mininger who showed that the Christain cocept of forgiveness is one of the powerful relazes for mental problems of guilt That's why religioius people have far less incidence of mental illness than do non believers. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) At least the possibility of divine healing -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote:
Meta =>Medical evidence in Catholic miracle committees is extremely compelling. Divine healing is so well attested that it's even changed the paradigm in medicine to allow spiritual belief in the core curriculum of 150 medical schools including Harvard. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) people who don't even know you but are willing to devote at least 4 minutes to concentrated wishes for his best interest should the need arize. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow. Gosh. A whole four minutes wishing. I'm impressed. MEta =>you must be very young. Have you ever lived on your own in a major American SMSA? Then if so you should know that 99% of the people out there wont give you one minute of good wishes. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) people who are willing to come get you anywhere anytime for any need 24-7. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote:
meta => ARe you going to loan him money? Are you going to make sure his family is cared for if he can't get a job (if he needs one) or whatever? Are you going to be the one make sure that his family is ok? quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) People who actually like you for youself regardless of corny jokes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote:
Meta =>Some do. Some are really up right good people who I care about very much. But most wont give you the time of day unless they can get something. Most Christians have an ethic which forces them to at least try to like you. In either camp you have to give others a chance, though that much is true for both. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) regular source of pot luck dinners. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote:
meta =>What an ass! You have not the slightest concept of how much this cam mean to person to lose his faith. It's just a big game to you cause you are a child. You think this is contest, which side has the better social group right? Like in jr. high, no sit with us at lunch, we have jello! Who cares? I know the guy, I know him you don't. You have no right to give me this crap about concern, I doubt that you know what concern is. YOU ARE THE LIAR! I was an atheist, you dont' know jack. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [/QUOTE] |
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02-09-2002, 05:35 AM
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#158 | |
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Look, Meta, why don't you just take a break from this? Insulting other people isn't going to help you feel better about rw and if you think that doing so is pleasing God you surely are deluding yourself. Admit this is about you, your feelings, your helplessness. If you can help rw then I hope you will go do it. But if not then lashing out at people here is achieving nothing good, is it? Besides, I find it ludicrous in view of your posts over the last day, that you think it's everyone else who is being selfish, who is trying to turn attention on themselves. Anyway, if you want to post this way, it's your choice. It's between you and the LORD, isn't it? love Helen [ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]</p> |
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02-09-2002, 07:29 AM
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#159 |
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I move that we immeadiately ban Metacock. Admins?
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02-09-2002, 08:22 AM
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#160 | |
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What a tirade.
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- your pain is self-inflicted due to your defective theology of not putting God in His right place, as Calvinism does. God is not enough on the throne, you are too much on the throne and therefore you take too much of what rw is going through, on yourself. It's his spiritual journey and his life. You couldn't have 'converted' him in the first place, could you? So there's little you can do if he chooses to leave. Except - wow, here's a thought - we could try to understand??? Nah...we don't do that with people who leave - ewwwww - icky....
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