Freethought & Rationalism Archive

David Mathews · 07-22-2002, 05:01 AM

Hello Helen,

Quote:

I think you are using different meanings of the word 'care' and that is rather confusing.

David: I care about people as people. I do not care what people think either positively or negatively about myself.

Love,

David Mathews

agapeo · 07-22-2002, 05:05 AM

Quote:

David: Your thoughts are your own.

Well, thank God for that!

I'd be disappointed if I had to share yours.

[quote]1 Corinthians 13 does not obligate Christians to care about what people think.[quote]
Oh David, you didn't answer my original question to you. I asked if you were OBLIGATED to love me. Not if you do.

Quote:

I care about people who hate me, that would not be possible if I was concerned about what they thought of me.

I understand the distinction, but why would you go out of your way for them? I mean, surely you'd want to change their viewpoint towards you, wouldn't you? If not the only avenue is to continue to act/respond to you in kind as you treat them. That is with contempt for the fact that they hate you and yet you don't realize that they may do so because of the way you treat them. Maybe, just maybe, they'd hate you less, if you treated them with respect.

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: agapeo ]

HelenM · 07-22-2002, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David Mathews:
David: I care about people as people. I do not care what people think either positively or negatively about myself.

I think there is a danger in that, that you might annoy people and not care because you don't care that they are annoyed at you. And yet I do not believe it is Scriptural to annoy people unnecessarily.

Caring somewhat about what they think of you could help you to obey Scriptural principles of non-offense and principles about loving other people. In my opinion.

If you could anaesthetize your head totally you could go and bang it against other people and say "Look, it doesn't hurt!" But if it hurts them it might be morally wrong to do it even if it doesn't hurt you...

love
Helen

bonduca · 07-22-2002, 06:03 AM

It appears that Helen is much more Christian in her outlook than David Mathews.

Alas, being an atheist, no one cares what I think.

HelenM · 07-22-2002, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bonduca:
It appears that Helen is much more Christian in her outlook than David Mathews.

Alas, being an atheist, no one cares what I think.

As I said to agapeo, I do!

I care, regardless of your beliefs or lack thereof...I don't consider your beliefs or lack thereof to invalidate the worth of what you say...

love
Helen

MrDarwin · 07-22-2002, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricia:
ROFLMAO!!!!!

~Tricia

Tricia, please keep this up. It's a healthy attitude.

nyx · 07-22-2002, 06:41 AM

Hey Tricia,

Where did you go?

Wanna get back to some of your original concerns?

I used to be a 15 year old Christian girl. It's been awhile, but I would love to talk about some of your issues. It's tough to have doubts and questions if there's nobody around you feel like you can talk to.

There appear to be a number of people here who can listen and discuss ideas regardless of their own personal beliefs.

Nyx

NOGO · 07-22-2002, 10:39 AM

Hi Tricia,

I was about your age (14) when I abandoned the faith. The thing that really did it at first was reading the OT. I say at first because doubt got deaper and deaper as the years went by. It is kind of confusing because your brain tells you one thing and your feelings tell you another.

Most Christians talk to your feelings when they try to convert you. They are generally not good at talking to your brain with rational logic.

For me rational logic is the only thing that would keep me in the ranks of the believers. So nobody had any answers for and this is still the case decades later.

Strange that even when I called myself a non-Christian I had an attachement to Jesus which lingered on for many years.

Tricia you must be the kind of person who wants answers at the rational level and don't accept these "make you feel good" kind of answers.

Are you afraid of the consequences of your current state of mind?

NOGO · 07-22-2002, 10:48 AM

Quote:

HelenSL
However, can you be sure Tricia has many years? I hope not but what if she should meet with an untimely death any day?

That is really sick.
I know many people who died as good Christians.
But during their lives they had many doubts.
Are you saying that if they had died during a period of doubt in their lives then too bad 'tis hell for them.

This is so typical of Christians, if you can't convince with arguements then maybe you can do it through fear.

HelenM · 07-22-2002, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NOGO:
That is really sick.
I know many people who died as good Christians.
But during their lives they had many doubts.
Are you saying that if they had died during a period of doubt in their lives then too bad 'tis hell for them.

This is so typical of Christians, if you can't convince with arguements then maybe you can do it through fear.

Sorry if I was unclear - this is not what I believe. I did say that in a post subsequent to the one you quoted.

I agree with you that such beliefs are hurtful because they use fear and intimidation to cause people to remain 'obedient and faithful'.

I didn't write what I did meaning that Tricia is currently hell-bound. As I said in a subsequent post on this thread (in effect) I believe that a Christian can't lose their salvation. They're on a path that leads to heaven, as it were, I believe, even if it sometimes seems that the path is going entirely the wrong direction.

I wasn't thinking of 'eternal destinies' when I wrote what I did. I was only intending to point out that we cannot assume, as David did, that any human being has years left of their life [on earth]. We never know that for sure.

Comments by David in this thread imply that he does believe someone can renounce their salvation; in fact he seems to think that Satan currently owns Tricia's soul...

love
Helen

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]

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07-22-2002, 06:03 AM	#154
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	It appears that Helen is much more Christian in her outlook than David Mathews. Alas, being an atheist, no one cares what I think.

07-22-2002, 06:41 AM	#157
nyx Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: US Posts: 76	Hey Tricia, Where did you go? Wanna get back to some of your original concerns? I used to be a 15 year old Christian girl. It's been awhile, but I would love to talk about some of your issues. It's tough to have doubts and questions if there's nobody around you feel like you can talk to. There appear to be a number of people here who can listen and discuss ideas regardless of their own personal beliefs. Nyx

07-22-2002, 10:39 AM	#158
NOGO Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 1,562	Hi Tricia, I was about your age (14) when I abandoned the faith. The thing that really did it at first was reading the OT. I say at first because doubt got deaper and deaper as the years went by. It is kind of confusing because your brain tells you one thing and your feelings tell you another. Most Christians talk to your feelings when they try to convert you. They are generally not good at talking to your brain with rational logic. For me rational logic is the only thing that would keep me in the ranks of the believers. So nobody had any answers for and this is still the case decades later. Strange that even when I called myself a non-Christian I had an attachement to Jesus which lingered on for many years. Tricia you must be the kind of person who wants answers at the rational level and don't accept these "make you feel good" kind of answers. Are you afraid of the consequences of your current state of mind?

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