Rusting Car Bumper

Its not a matter of faith if its believed beacuse its consistent with the facts. so do not mistake absolute proof with faith.

The universe and in contents are consistent with the belief there is no god.

Further, your definition of atheism is too narrow. On merely has to have no positive belief in a god to be called an atheist. To be an atheist it is not necessary to believe positively there are no gods.

Certainly atheists *can* have faith but they need not have to.

BTW, don't buy into that strong atheism vs weak atheism BS. All of the positons which can encompass atheism are much more nuanced than those two.

DC

beastmaster

Faith in what? I've never seen a "strong atheist" say something like, "I believe God does not exist in spite of the lack of evidence that God does not exist." In my experience, a "strong atheist" is usually someone who acknowledges the logical incompatibility of a particular god-concept's alleged properties. I would really like to meet one of these "strong atheists" who says things that imply "faith" that God does not exist.

I agree, but I do think it is possible for an atheist to supplement the lack of evidence of God or the incoherence of God with a strong *intuition* or *inference* of God's non-existence. For instance, when I look at the universe, I see it loaded with arbitrariness. From this, I draw a strong inference that there is no plan, no intent, and no God. But I would not call that intuition or inference "faith." Nor is it necessary to atheism.

BTW, ignore my previous two posts; I mistook this thread to be about a different kind of faith.

Thieving Magpie

Ronin: No, I am not a Christian.

Beyelzu "faith = resistance to reason. faith = dogma and resistance to change" : I do not necessarily see it that way. What if a 'god' or numerous 'gods' were proven to exist through reason? What if this has not happened yet, but may happen, one day? Either way, until it has been proven true or false in each consecutive situation, one must put a certain amount of faith in any belief that presupposes an answer, such as 'There is no way a god could exist, period.' If that was one day proven incorrect, then what would atheists have been using to support their belief systems up until that point? i think it would be faith.

Amos "How would you know what faith is if you have none?" : Right on.

Philosoft "I don't have an idea of "what God is" but when someone says God is the supernatural creator of the universe, I can still say "I don't believe in that." " : Yes, that was my point. It is easy for people to disbelieve in a God that did something like 'create the universe' but not all gods are thought to do that necessarily. The fact is, atheism is a reactionary thought. It is not a belief that stands on it's own because it is a rebellion against something specific. No one can say 'No gods could ever exist anywhere' because that presupposes what 'gods' could be, when in fact, they can be anything anyone wants to believe in. I could believe a stone is god, simply because it is 'stoney.' Is it not a god? I seem to think it is. Does this stone not exist?

Philosoft

Depends. Some people have no problem with a very inclusive definition of "atheist" that encompasses infants, for example.
It may seem trivial, but this is why I draw the distinction between "God" and "god." I know gods exist. The sun is an existing god because it was once worshipped as if it had supernatural powers. But I have yet to encounter a thinkable concept of a god named God.
If you worship a stone as having supernatural powers, then you have indeed defined a god.

Thieving Magpie

I never said the stone has supernatural powers. I do not believe that 'gods' or 'Gods' have to have supernatural powers. Some people say 'Truth' is their God. They certainly do not believe that 'Truth' has supernatural powers, but they treat it, for all intents and purposes, as a God.

Thieving Magpie

Things like 'money' can be 'gods' too, I believe. It all depends on the person who 'worships' or 'treats' it as such.

Dr Rick

The worship of a thing does not make it a god no matter how it is treated; A volcano is still just a volcano no many how many virgins one tosses into it.

Rick

Amos

I can too. People who change their mind after every convincing argument they hear and in the end do not know their ass form a hole in the ground.

Philosoft

Then what does the stone do that makes you worship it?
I know. Silly, isn't it? I wish people would take more care in word usage. Sometimes metaphors confuse rather than enlighten. I really don't see any similarity between the god of truth and the god of creation. No one goes to "truth church." No one believes truth created the universe.

Philosoft

Hey, I was drunk and that was a really funny shaped hole.