Rational BAC

Since we are doing stories, time for my story I guess.

I was raised as an Episcopalian, with an Episcopalian mother and an excommunicated Catholic father (the Church did not condone things like that so very long ago)

Will admit, I never took church seriously. Was baptised and confirmed as an Episcopalian, and never really gave the whole thing a lot of thought. I had an excellent memory at the time and all the memorizing of "creeds" did not bother me at all. I still wonder what happened to the old "Apostle's creed" that I had to memorize so many years ago. ----------Didn't Jesus go down into Hell for those 3 days? -----------at least that made a little sense--He had to do something for those 3 days after all, didn't He? That part seems to have disappeared from the newer versions (Nicene Creed) recited in Church these days.

--------Until college and questioning everything --as college students are wont to do. ---------I rationally made the decision to be an agnostic---since to be honest ---I did not know the truth of any of it and figured I would never know=the definition of agnosticism as my best guess.--- Still my best guess of what an agnostic really is.

And then came the tender year of 27 (oh so long ago for this now 60 year old phart)----------Got sick as a dog. Had a killer headache that would not go away--I don't get headaches of any kind--never have had any headaches before--never any since. And this was a KILLER headache. I varied between high temps and chills for days.

(And I was under no particular stress at the time at all that could explain anything at all like what was happening to me. I was a very competent boat rail bender at the time. Bent my rails and went home with no stress problems at all.)

Anyway, I felt like I was dying and did not know why. One night, in between chills and fever and this terrible headache----------I found myself encompassed by a brilliant white light with a shadowy figure inside it. I mean this light was so bright as to be instantly blinding---but it was not blinding in any way -it was the most tender light imaginable.

And standing by this shadowy figure (who I took to be Jesus Christ--and still do) within this brilliant but amazingly comforting light----------I knew everything there was to know about everything in the universe. It was like I was 1000 times more intelligent than I am.

And I felt an inner peace that I have never felt before or since. An indescribable inner peace.

I had a wife and 2 children at the time to support and I understood my responsibilies. BUT I DID NOT WANT TO GO BACK.

Woke up the next day with the sun. My headache was completely gone, no chills, no fever. I felt like absolute shiit. Could barely walk, could barely see. But I knew I was back and would get better. And I was very glad to be back and reassume my responsiblities.

Went back to work after a couple more days bending my boat rails and back to my night school learning about refrigeration and eventually turned it into a very lucrative 20 year career, raised my daughters and sent them through college with my very "rational" mind.

But ---after the age of 27 I have always known that there was something else out there. And it seems to me to be of a Christian nature. And I know that there is an afterlife---because I was soo close to being there.

So ------all you atheists--make fun of this one. Put it under your microscopes and explain in your very rational way. Make fun of me. I do not care. I know what I experienced. And I will never forget it.

This is not meant in any way to be a "witness". I hate obvious and annoying Christian "witnessing". I expect to convert no one at all and that is not my intention. Just spilling my guts a little bit---as is I suppose the purpose of this thread.

Awful long post ---and I hate that. Sorry.

PS-----------And if any of you think that this was my "born again" experience--that I have mentioned in previous posts-------It is not ---That happened some 12 years later--at a very difficult time in my life-and it is an experience that I never discuss with anyone.

Rational BAC

I think that this is an excellent thread. Come on all you chicken-poopies--maybe theists, maybe non theists ---spill your guts out just a little bit.

Why are you an atheist? Why are you a theist? Why are you an agnostic? Tell us -if you dare--- why you are why you are?

Come on now. ---- Forgot the microscopes. --- Forgot all the rational analysis of motives. Tell all of us who you are.

Just spill your guts out . Why are you what you are? Really? Tell me and all of us your backgrounds. After all, you have nothing to lose. We are all anonymous here.

Inquisitive minds want to know-------------

wildernesse

I believe that I responded on the thread that Sabine referred to. . .anyway, I was reared by a conservative Christian family, and I have had experiences that I would expect if my beliefs were what they are.

--tibac

Charlie

Yes, well there's one thing we have in common.. my wife was raised catholic and her parents are very much religious to this day. She has been some what on the fence for the last several years not sure exactly what she believes. I have been quiet (in the closet so to speak) for all my life, even hiding my nonbelief by going along with bowing my head closing my eyes pretending to pray when in a group of believers. However, I am now beginning to stand up and voice my nonbelief when asked. And I am beginning to become more active with my nonbelief. I have absolutely no problem with people believing what ever they want. All I ask is that believers give me the same respect and allow me to believe or not believe. The only reason I am now becoming more active is because I see the believers trying to take away my freedom to believe or not believe.

Anyway probably should not have shared so much.. still not wanting this to turn into a debate, just wanting to learn how people become christian and what makes them "tick" so to speak. I must admit it is all amazing (I do not mean any disrespect here).
Charlie

Charlie

I see that I responded in somewhat more of a debate fashion with you.. wasn't planning to debate here but I guess that's the way it happens. In general, I think we are all mostly good people and just like you said, we are all just trying to do the best we can!
Peace,
Charlie

Charlie

Hi Rational BAC!
Thanks for sharing your experience and beliefs. Noticed that you were raised in a religious environment, but didn't think much of it during your youth. May I ask during the time when your situation came about with the headache, did you resort back to what you had learned from childhood and try any praying prior to having the enlightened experience you described?
Just curious,
Charlie

Charlie

Fair enough that I at least answer here.. Also would like to remind us that the thread was suppose to be somewhat of a nondebating format, and thus the Question was "how?", not "why". The only reason for this was to avoid everyone trying to support and prove "Why" they believe or not believe. This would lead to arguing very fast. Hoping that we can explain how we came to believe or not believe and be able to respect each others situation and leave it at that.

However, this is an open forum and everyone is, of course, free to take this where ever they want, and I respect that! Where ever it goes is where ever it goes....

How I became an atheist, or actually the better way to phrase it is, how I realized I was atheist.. I have basically had no belief most all of my life. I was for the most part raised in a nonreligious environment. My parents were searching their own beliefs and I was exposed to half a dozen different churches around town and even something called "Science of Mind". However at the time, being a child, I didn't understand any of it. All I remember is that my parents were very open and told me I could believe what ever I wanted and not to worry about it until I was older. I grew up and never did believe. Had times where believers tried to convert/save me.. As I got older I became more skeptical to the point now where I have no beliefs of any religion, supernatural, paranormal, talking to the dead, ESP, myths and the like... It wasn't until about 5 years ago that I was told by a friend that I am an atheist. My friend said an atheist has no belief in god(s). I had to agree with that label, although I'm sure there are other labels for me like rationalist, realist, objectavist... Anyway I am fascinated with "Believers" and "how" they came to believe? And yes I am also fascinated with the "why" they believe but I know this will start a debate as believers will want to prove why they believe and nonbelievers, like myself, will be compelled to prove why we do not believe. Btw, my father who claimed atheism for many years now believes there is some sort of "universal consciousness" and my mother believes in wicca, paranormal, psychic ability, supernatural...
Sincerely,
Charlie

Charlie

Hi wildernesse!
Thanks for sharing.. nicely said!
Charlie

Sabine Grant

bonjour again Charlie! I think we have one more thing in common.... as you commented on the importance of respecting people's beliefs or lack of. Believers can be forceful indeed. And the present administration in the US has been extensively pushing a religious agenda to justify some decisions.
As an aside, I sincerely appreciate your evenhanded means of expression and your moderation in presenting your opinions.

Eric H

Hello Charlie,

Quote,
The only reason I am now becoming more active is because I see the believers trying to take away my freedom to believe or not believe.
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I hope I did not give the impression that I was trying to take away your freedom to believe or not. Anyway you are safe, as long as you do not have the need to believe willingly, then you won’t believe.
Also if you feel pressured into believing, then it is highly unlikly that these beliefs will last and be meaningful to you.


---------------------------------------------
Quote Eric
If and only if God exists then he must be very real, If a God exists then he is the God of the whole world, and all the religions of the world share the same God.
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Quote Charlie.
You are bordering an egotistical view and what you are saying is pure conjecture on your part..
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Of course it is conjecture because I have no proof, however if there are herds of Gods, one for Islam, another for Sikhs, another for the Christians, and more for the Hindu, this makes even less sense to me.

Maybe I should have said another twenty thousand gods for each of the supposedly Christian denominations that exist.

From this world view it seems that religions make Gods, instead of God making everything, just my opinion.

If the religions of the world are willing to admit more openly to each other that we share the same God, then surely it would give us a greater moral responsibility to each other.

Anyway that is part of the reason I chose to believe, because I see God as being far greater than the Catholic religion. I could not seem to believe in an exclusive type of God in the way that the Catholic faith seems to portray him.


Quote Charlie
I think we are all mostly good people and just like you said, we are all just trying to do the best we can!
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Yes I’ll go along with that,

Peace

Eric