Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sattwic · 03-07-2003, 12:42 AM

How many are there?
Well, India's coastline of 6500 and odd miles has been changing continously, and many of ancient cities were founded on its shores.. so most of the cities were lost to the changing shoreline and to tidal deluges.

One of them:
Poompuhar (orign. Kaveri Poom Pattinam) was a great city that was submerged under the Bay of Bengal. Excavations have shown the extent of the city to be as large and designed like Mayan cities. The Epic Manimekhalai notes about the city.

Gulf of Cambay is another Indian submerged city along with the port of Somnath.

There is a very good book 'Marine Archaeology in India' which lists the progress of excavations of these cities, many of which predate Sumerian timelines. (The link has a brief synopsis also)

Good information about Poompuhar can be had here from the Tamil Nadu Tourism Board site.
and from National Institute of Oceanograhpy, Goawebsite.

And don't miss to read This essay from Graham Hancock who is conducting the present excavations off Mahabalipuram togethter with the National Oceanography Insitute.

karthik · 03-07-2003, 06:38 AM

I wasn't comparing the destruction wrought on Hinduism by Islamic Invaders but merely making a point that everything wasn't hunky-dory with hindu kings either.

This aside, some tamil "historians" claim that Lemuria was the lost land of the tamils and that it was ruled by a Pandya King called "Ukkira Peruvazhudhi" who later began to be worshipped as Shiva.

Sattwic · 03-07-2003, 07:18 AM

Quote:

This aside, some tamil "historians" claim that Lemuria was the lost land of the tamils and that it was ruled by a Pandya King called "Ukkira Peruvazhudhi" who later began to be worshipped as Shiva

There you go again.. great theories you have Mr. Karthik as to origins of Lord Shiva..

By the way, I have one for you, the name 'Karthik' comes from a wise Man who was an original ancestor in Lemuria, who first expoinded the theory of Communism. After his death, he became a Ancestor god and revisited Mankind through Lenin and Marx. He met Stalin in the Astral plane and taught him how to rule Russia.

:boohoo:

ukkira-peruvarutia Pandya was the last king who reigned during the period of the Third Tamil Sangam in Madurai and under whose patronage the Akananuru was compiled. NOT LEMURIA!!!!

He ruled PRESENT DAY MADURAI!!! :banghead:

And during his rule, Saiva Siddhanta school was already in existence!

Good God! Ignorance is bliss indeed!

Dr. Jagan Mohan

karthik · 03-07-2003, 07:43 AM

Mr. Sattwic:

Are you blind?? I merely said that "some tamil 'historians' claim that Lemuria was the lost land of the tamils and that it was ruled by a Pandya King called 'Ukkira Peruvazhudhi' who later began to be worshipped as Shiva".

I didnt say it was a fact.

As to your claim of mudhal sangam existing in southern madurai that was leter submerged can you cite any references please??

Sattwic · 03-07-2003, 10:05 AM

I merely said that "some tamil 'historians' claim that Lemuria was the lost land of the tamils and that it was ruled by a Pandya King called 'Ukkira Peruvazhudhi' who later began to be worshipped as Shiva".

Some Astronomers also say that the sun revolves around the earth, some scientists even talk about secret energy sources in the pyramids and alien landings.

Haven't we seen it all?
Muhammad in Hindu scriptures,
Krishna and Christ are one and the same,
etc etc etc..

References?

Meenakshisundaram, T.P
A History of Tamil Language, Poona, 1965
A History of Tamil Literature, Annamalai Univ. Chidambaram, 1965;
sarvodaya ilakkiyap pannai, madurai, 1981
>>> see pages 16-55, chapters on Cankam: Historical Notes

Singaravelu Mudaliar, A
Abithanachintamani Encyclopaedia of Tamil Literature
Reprinted by Asian Educational Services, Delhi 16/Chennai 14, 1981
>>> Introduction to Cankam Literature, pages 119-214

Sundaram Pillay, P
Some milestones in the history of tamil literature
Pioneer Book Services, Madras, 1985

Vaiyapuri Pillai, S
History of Tamil Language and Literature,
Madras, 1956
>>> Chapter 'The Tamizh Sangams'

Institute of Asian Studies
Encyclopaedia of Tamil Literature,
Inst. of Asian studies, 2 vols, Thiruvanmayur, Madras-41, 1990, ISBN: 9991470689

03-07-2003, 06:36 PM

By Sattwic

How many are there?
Well, India's coastline of 6500 and odd miles has been changing continously, and many of ancient cities were founded on its shores.. so most of the cities were lost to the changing shoreline and to tidal deluges.

One of them:
Poompuhar (orign. Kaveri Poom Pattinam) was a great city that was submerged under the Bay of Bengal. Excavations have shown the extent of the city to be as large and designed like Mayan cities. The Epic Manimekhalai notes about the city.

Gulf of Cambay is another Indian submerged city along with the port of Somnath.

My reply : I see ... interesting.

There is a very good book 'Marine Archaeology in India' which lists the progress of excavations of these cities, many of which predate Sumerian timelines. (The link has a brief synopsis also)

Good information about Poompuhar can be had here from the Tamil Nadu Tourism Board site.
and from National Institute of Oceanograhpy, Goawebsite.

And don't miss to read This essay from Graham Hancock who is conducting the present excavations off Mahabalipuram togethter with the National Oceanography Insitute.

My reply : Thank You ... I will bookmark it and read when there is available time.

hinduwoman · 03-08-2003, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lugotorix
With regards to Buddha being co-opted by Hinduism and made an avatar of Vishnu -- yes, they did consider him an incarnation of Vishnu, but they still rejected his teachings.
Supposedly, the asuras (jealous gods, or titans) had learned the secrets of the Vedas and were becoming as powerful as the devas (higher gods). Vishnu incarnated as Buddha and convinced the asuras to abandon the Vedas, after which they lost their power. Not exactly a glowing recommendation of the Buddhadharma, eh?
It's a bit like what happened to Jesus -- he became an object of worship and his radical teachings were mostly forgotten. Thank goodness the Buddha's teachings had spread to other countries by that time.

lugotorix

Yep. But Hindus forgot about the original purpose. I find it funny myself, but modern Hindus are fully convinced that Buddha was a spiritual leader, as in fact were my grandparents and their parents

hinduwoman · 03-08-2003, 07:00 PM

Seraphim, I meant kings in the past of course.
In Hindu dharmashastras the king is the upholder of law, the weilder of danda or rod of justice. He is the pivot of the polity. But Buddhism has no such political analysis to offer.

Karthik, I have seen the Meenakshi mandir, but I don't remember seeing any impalements. Besides, temples do not show any killings unless it is one of a god killing a demon.

Answerer · 03-08-2003, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hinduwoman
I find it funny myself, but modern Hindus are fully convinced that Buddha was a spiritual leader, as in fact were my grandparents and their parents

Well, thats not the case around me. An Avatar is still an Avatar to them.

03-10-2003, 05:21 PM

Seraphim, I meant kings in the past of course.
In Hindu dharmashastras the king is the upholder of law, the weilder of danda or rod of justice. He is the pivot of the polity. But Buddhism has no such political analysis to offer.

My reply : Buddhism is path to seek oneself ... nothing to do with politics. Thank you for the information.

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03-07-2003, 12:42 AM	#21
Sattwic Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pondicherry, India Posts: 28	How many are there? Well, India's coastline of 6500 and odd miles has been changing continously, and many of ancient cities were founded on its shores.. so most of the cities were lost to the changing shoreline and to tidal deluges. One of them: Poompuhar (orign. Kaveri Poom Pattinam) was a great city that was submerged under the Bay of Bengal. Excavations have shown the extent of the city to be as large and designed like Mayan cities. The Epic Manimekhalai notes about the city. Gulf of Cambay is another Indian submerged city along with the port of Somnath. There is a very good book 'Marine Archaeology in India' which lists the progress of excavations of these cities, many of which predate Sumerian timelines. (The link has a brief synopsis also) Good information about Poompuhar can be had here from the Tamil Nadu Tourism Board site. and from National Institute of Oceanograhpy, Goawebsite. And don't miss to read This essay from Graham Hancock who is conducting the present excavations off Mahabalipuram togethter with the National Oceanography Insitute.

03-07-2003, 06:38 AM	#22
karthik Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 277	I wasn't comparing the destruction wrought on Hinduism by Islamic Invaders but merely making a point that everything wasn't hunky-dory with hindu kings either. This aside, some tamil "historians" claim that Lemuria was the lost land of the tamils and that it was ruled by a Pandya King called "Ukkira Peruvazhudhi" who later began to be worshipped as Shiva.

03-07-2003, 07:43 AM	#24
karthik Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 277	Mr. Sattwic: Are you blind?? I merely said that "some tamil 'historians' claim that Lemuria was the lost land of the tamils and that it was ruled by a Pandya King called 'Ukkira Peruvazhudhi' who later began to be worshipped as Shiva". I didnt say it was a fact. As to your claim of mudhal sangam existing in southern madurai that was leter submerged can you cite any references please??

03-07-2003, 10:05 AM	#25
Sattwic Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pondicherry, India Posts: 28	I merely said that "some tamil 'historians' claim that Lemuria was the lost land of the tamils and that it was ruled by a Pandya King called 'Ukkira Peruvazhudhi' who later began to be worshipped as Shiva". Some Astronomers also say that the sun revolves around the earth, some scientists even talk about secret energy sources in the pyramids and alien landings. Haven't we seen it all? Muhammad in Hindu scriptures, Krishna and Christ are one and the same, etc etc etc.. References? Meenakshisundaram, T.P A History of Tamil Language, Poona, 1965 A History of Tamil Literature, Annamalai Univ. Chidambaram, 1965; sarvodaya ilakkiyap pannai, madurai, 1981 >>> see pages 16-55, chapters on Cankam: Historical Notes Singaravelu Mudaliar, A Abithanachintamani Encyclopaedia of Tamil Literature Reprinted by Asian Educational Services, Delhi 16/Chennai 14, 1981 >>> Introduction to Cankam Literature, pages 119-214 Sundaram Pillay, P Some milestones in the history of tamil literature Pioneer Book Services, Madras, 1985 Vaiyapuri Pillai, S History of Tamil Language and Literature, Madras, 1956 >>> Chapter 'The Tamizh Sangams' Institute of Asian Studies Encyclopaedia of Tamil Literature, Inst. of Asian studies, 2 vols, Thiruvanmayur, Madras-41, 1990, ISBN: 9991470689

03-07-2003, 06:36 PM	#26
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	By Sattwic How many are there? Well, India's coastline of 6500 and odd miles has been changing continously, and many of ancient cities were founded on its shores.. so most of the cities were lost to the changing shoreline and to tidal deluges. One of them: Poompuhar (orign. Kaveri Poom Pattinam) was a great city that was submerged under the Bay of Bengal. Excavations have shown the extent of the city to be as large and designed like Mayan cities. The Epic Manimekhalai notes about the city. Gulf of Cambay is another Indian submerged city along with the port of Somnath. My reply : I see ... interesting. There is a very good book 'Marine Archaeology in India' which lists the progress of excavations of these cities, many of which predate Sumerian timelines. (The link has a brief synopsis also) Good information about Poompuhar can be had here from the Tamil Nadu Tourism Board site. and from National Institute of Oceanograhpy, Goawebsite. And don't miss to read This essay from Graham Hancock who is conducting the present excavations off Mahabalipuram togethter with the National Oceanography Insitute. My reply : Thank You ... I will bookmark it and read when there is available time.

03-08-2003, 07:00 PM	#28
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Seraphim, I meant kings in the past of course. In Hindu dharmashastras the king is the upholder of law, the weilder of danda or rod of justice. He is the pivot of the polity. But Buddhism has no such political analysis to offer. Karthik, I have seen the Meenakshi mandir, but I don't remember seeing any impalements. Besides, temples do not show any killings unless it is one of a god killing a demon.

03-10-2003, 05:21 PM	#30
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Seraphim, I meant kings in the past of course. In Hindu dharmashastras the king is the upholder of law, the weilder of danda or rod of justice. He is the pivot of the polity. But Buddhism has no such political analysis to offer. My reply : Buddhism is path to seek oneself ... nothing to do with politics. Thank you for the information.

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