beyelzu

I suppose that most people here know that I am a conservative, mostly libertarian. I have found myself becoming more and more disgusted with the gop. I despise corporate welfare even more than regular wealth redistribution. I just feel that more and more republicans represent the religious right and corporate interests, what Rand would call statists I think.

Anyway, they arent conservatives and I dont think I can vote for them. Which would basicaly leave me with the dems, who I dont like, but maybe I can stomach more.

Pomp

You know, given the fair number of libertarian free marketey types who are as disgusted with the social authoritarian, economically elitist policies of the Republican party, I've often thought htat some sort of limited political alliance between progressives and libertarians might be in order. Campaign on a number of defined goals, such as ending corporate welfare* or the war on drugs, avoid divisive economic issues, and split the budget freed up by the end of those programs in half, one part for tax cuts to please the libs and one part to be redistributed to programs favored by the progressives, such as education and health care.

*Actually, corporate welfare is an issue I'm divided on. I oppose simpl ehandouts to corporations that have mismanaged their assets, but I also oppose simply letting them go out of business, leaving unemployment and the economic consequences that entails in their wake.

John K. Fitzpatrick

Being a practical anarchist, I've also seen plenty of cross-over between Capitalist Libertarians and Socialist Libertarians; the Caps just have these weird *beliefs* about property and markets. I would amend your comment, change "corporate welfare" to encompass "corporate personhood". If the Libertarians would just get off the assinine, selfish 'sharing pencils at school = communism' kick, and pay attention to the actual power structure controlling things, which isn't at this point the government, but the corporate economy, we all could make excellent progress toward further liberty.

Vote Green. But afterwards, expect the blood-letting to begin, c.f. Kronstadt revolt... or then we....

- John

beyelzu

the thing about corporate welfare is that there are many different forms. Take deregulation, could have been good for consumers and the market but it never seems to be cause companies like enron get such sweetheart deals.

beyelzu

another thing, it seems to me that liberals seem more sincere. right or wrong many of them want to make the world a better place. the democratic party has at least some real liberals, but it it's damn near impossible to find a real conservative in the republican party.


or do you liberals here feel the same way about the dems??

Malachi151

Actualyl I think that Howard Dean is a good cross between libertarian and socially responsible democrat. Dean is a lot more fiscally conservative then many think due to the right trying to label him as a liberal wacko based on his anti-war position.

I think that Dean will be a great candidte for 2004, he's good for libertarians and good for democrats, he's esentially good for everyone except the Chrisitan Right and corproate special interests.

Dean for America yo

www.deanforamerica.com

elwoodblues

I've been getting the same impression. I'll be surprised if he wins, but I'll also be very, very happy.

nermal

I disagree that Dean is a fiscal conservative, but he is fiscally responsible. He does believe in considerable spending on social entitlement programs, which, when weighed against Bush's generosity to large corporate sponsors may not seem that expensive. The difference, however, is that Bush's largess is on the front end in the form of tax breaks and loose regulatory requirements, and Dean's is on the back end in the form of government spending.
Dean is definitely "tax and spend" though Bush could arguably be called "don't tax, and spend anyway."
No pejoratives here, but I don't think you can call Dean a fiscal Conservative.
I agree, so far.

Ed


www.deanforamerica.com [/B][/QUOTE]

Autonemesis

Yes, I sympathize. At this point it seems the Democrats lie a little less about what they really represent than do the Republicans.

BUT -

This appraisal hangs by a thread. If Dean is elected and we attack Iran anyway, I am getting that sailboat immediately and sailing someplace else.

Jolimont

Bush is "borrow and spend" as Dean says. He's right on too. Have you taken a look at National Priorities?http://www.nationalpriorities.org/ta...eTaxChart.html
It shows how much Bush's borrowing is costing each one of us. I'm mad as hell! Go Dean!!!