jess

Supernatural:

Do I believe in things I can't always explain, yes I do.

Do I believe there may be another type of existance after death or in reincarnation, I don't know, and while I would like to find out, I am in no personal rush.

Do I have to see fairies in the bottom of my garden to make it prettier, no.

Mad Kally

I did a google search on neopagan and now I'm even more confused. What are these things you can't explain? Are they mystical or what? I'm sorry but I just can't grasp what it's all about. Do you believe in a god/gods/goddess/witchcraft/spells? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Hedwig

This is actually a tough one for even us pagans. See, the thing is, if you ask 50 neo-pagans what they believe, you will get 50 different answers. At the heart we are all pretty much people who revere and embrace nature and tend to refer to the earth as our Mother because without the earth we wouldn't exist...some deify to the point that they believe in physical deities...some believe that the spiritual core of the planet is in itself the deity and we are all a part of that...some believe in Zeus. It really is dependant on who you ask. Most of us see the gods as archetypes and if I were wanting to make myself more desirable, I'd call on a god/dess like Ishtar who was the Babylonian goddess of love and war....not because I think she's going to appear and bless me...but because it is, in essence, calling up that image, or that inherent strength that already exists in you as a person (aka, the ability to get people to notice you and want you...we've all done that at various times in our lives to varying degrees of success...it's just some of us use an archetype to really focus on the way we want to change.) I know you're probably even more confused now. Are there pagans who believe in a separate deities known as God and Goddess? Yes. I'm not one. I don't believe in that. Do I believe we are connected to the universe? Personally, yeah...we're all stardust, after a fashion. Do I think we survive after death? Well, energy cannot really be destroyed. Will our consciousness survive? I don't care. That falls into the category of "someone else's problem".

We all love and respect the earth. We respect the changing of the seasons and understand what they symbolize...that of a wheel of creation that continues on...even long after the human race has gone to dust...Is there a creator? Who knows?

LianaLi

Mad Kally-

I'll post an example, and hope to death that I don't get flamed, because I do realize it is out there, in terms of rationality.

I do happen to believe in precognition. I think it's a purely passive phenomenom, ie, I can't control it. For example, for several weeks running, I knew when I was going to get called on in italian class. It was like someone was tapping me on the shoulder, telling me to pay attention, minus the finger tapping portion. It was just that sense of alarm-alertness that one needs to pay attention right before the professor would call on me to answer a question. This happened for an entire class period, 2-3 times a week, for about 3 to 4 weeks running. Very weird.

Can I explain it? No. Can I reproduce it? No. Did it happen? Yes. Unless I was having hallucinations in class (ok, so that could be an explanation, too.) that totally separated me from relaity, it happened. Do I insist anyone else believe me? No. I just state that it happened, and I don't have a rational explanation for it. (Most of the time I don't state it happened. Who would believe me? )

What this example provides really is evidence that most every pagan has his or her own personal reasons for believing in something, well, else. Some believe in a more organized form, with rituals, sabbats, feasts, and covens. Some don't. Some believe in all the gods and goddesses literally. Some don't. Like MTL said, ask 50 pagans, get 50 different answers. About the most unifying belief pagans have is that they don't believe in a literal god, like the benevolent, loving, all powerful god of the xian faith. It kind of divides there. I'm waking out on a limb with this blanket statement, but most believe in something supernatural. How it expresses or manifests itself is up to the believer, be it gods/goddesses or supernatural phenomenom.

Someone &lt;hint hint&gt; ought to elaborate on wicca, for as I understand it, it's got some neatly defined beliefs. Or maybe I should toss out those Scott Cunningham books that I've got. I'd elaborate on it myself, but my lame, three-legged gerbil is starting to tire from running the wheel which powers my brain.


-Liana

Pandora

To expand on precognition, when I was at school we used to sneak off for illicit cigarettes in various hiding places. A few times I mentioned to my friends that I felt certain places weren’t safe and that we should go somewhere else. It would then turn out that the teachers had caught everyone there that time. All my friends decided that I obviously had some kind of psychic power!

We all got rather into Tarot cards, ouijia boards, astrology et.c and I found that I was rather good at them. This rather increased my popularity and so I spent a lot of time studying the subjects. The only thing was – I had no “magic” powers, I was just quite good at guessing and using the huge amount of information you can get about a person in five minutes to bend all my information and answers to convince them I really was psychic.

If I statistically examined the results I got I was no more accurate than probability would allow for. However, people want to be impressed and want to believe and so will tend to look more at your successes than at your failures. In a way I found this quite sad – a bit like when you realize that there is no Santa or tooth fairy.

The only “supernatural” phenomenon I’m still out on is the possibility that mind power can create certain atmospheres.

For example, my boyfriend has a large house that we use at the weekends, no-one has lived there for nearly thirty years and some of the rooms we opened up a few months ago after ten years of being locked. The house still has the furniture, curtains et.c that it had in 1900 – time has stood still there. It’s also dark, creaky and full of bats. It has just been used as the setting for a horror movie. A lot of our friends are very scared of being there. I love the place, but I find that when certain people are in the house the atmosphere changes – enough to make me have to run past various rooms and leave me terrified.

Am I just being a complete idiot or can another person’s fear transmit itself?

LianaLi

OK, I've done a few searches myself on google, for history of wicca. I've got a few sites that elaborate on the history, which might help.
See <a href="http://maxpages.com/auburnwitch/Satanism_And_History_Wicca" target="_blank">here</a>. It's got alot of pop up windows, but it does a descent job of tracing ideas to people.

<a href="http://www.geraldgardner.com/index/archive.shtml" target="_blank">This one</a> looks like it would be a very good site. I just skimmed the opening, but I recognize many names that were mentioned in the previous article I posted. With that in mind, hopefully, this page will elaborate more on beliefs and practices.

<a href="http://www.monmouth.com/~equinoxbook/history.html" target="_blank">This site</a> does a good job of showing how witchcraft draws its symbolicism and practices from different religions, globally. It's taken from <a href="http://www.monmouth.com/~equinoxbook/witchcraftpagan.html" target="_blank">this listing</a> of articles, all informative.

I guess the traditional explanation is empathy, the ability to pick up on other people's emotions. Of course, I could be completely off my rocker, too, but hey. There also could be other explanations I'm not aware of, but I guess that's the whole point of this discussion.

-Liana

brighid

Here is some info on Wicca:

In so far as the Craft of the Wise is the most ancient and most honorable creed of humankind, it behooves all who are Witches to act in away that give respect to the Old G-ds, to their sisters and brothers of the Craft and to themselves. Therefore, be it noted that: Chivalry is a high code of honor, which is most ancient Pagan origin, and must be lived by all who follow the Old Ways. It must be penned that thoughts and intent put forth on the middle-Earth will wax strong in the other worlds beyond, and return…bringing into creation, on this world, that which has been sent forth. This one should exercise discipline, for “as ye do plant, so shall ye harvest.”

“This above all… to thine own self be true…”

A Witch’s word must have the validity of a signed and witnessed oath. Thus, give they word sparingly, but adhere to it like iron.

Refrain from speaking ill of others, for not all truths of the matter may be known.

Pass not unverified words about another of here say is, in a large part, a thing of falsehoods

Be thou honest with others, and have them known that honesty is likewise expected of them.

The fury of the moment plays folly with the truth; to keep one’s head is a virtue.

Contemplate always the consequences of thine acts upon others. Strive not to harm.

Dignity, a gracious manner, and a good humor are much to be admired.

As a Witch, thou hast power, and thy powers wax strongly as wisdom increases. Therefore exercise discretion in the use thereof.

Courage and honor endure forever. Their echoes remain when the mountains have crumbled to dust.

Pledge friendship and fealty to those who so warrant. Strengthen others of the Brethren and they shall strengthen thee.

The laws of the land should be obeyed whenever possible and within reason, for in the main they have been chosen with wisdom.

Have pride in thyself, and seek perfection in body and in mind. For the Lady has said, “How can thou honor another unless thou give honor to thyself first?”

From the Crystal Well by Ed Fitch.

Brigid

muon

Ronald Hutton's books "The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles" and "The Triumph of the Moon" are indispensible books for understanding the origins of modern paganism, and the relationship of modern paganism to those ancient religions we refer to as "pagan".

Hedwig

On the topic of divination, I've had some interesting experiences. I find that with tarot I can do very accurate readings for my friends, but I cannot read myself. Someone else always has to read for me.

And, funny enough, I have had the opportunity to perform an "exorcism" before. It was of more Wiccan design and not so much to fight off the supernatural in the house (which I'll elaborate on in a moment) but more to make the current occupants (two of my closest friends at the time) more comfortable. They were both born and raised strictly Christian but had to leave their faiths behind when the fundamentalism in which they were raised rejected them for being, respectively, a gay man and a lesbian. So they weren't Christian, but they were theists. I was taught the exorcism bit on a trip to New Orleans in the occult store where I got my athame (dagger used to symbolize the male principle in ritual...I still do work with a group...and frequently call the southern corner...though I could no longer be considered Wiccan by a long shot...though, again, Wiccans aren't the only pagans who use athames...aren't we confusing? )

The exorcism was the weaken an apparent haunting that was taking place in the house. A benevolent spirit protected them (the gay man had lost his younger brother the previous spring and it was just thought that it was him) and a less than happy spirit was causing all kinds of hell. Including throwing the lesbian's bedroom door open when there wasn't any wind...after she didn't open it when she heard voices coming from the other side of it...she was the only one in the house and there was no draft. But in all actuality the exorcism was done to make them feel better. I'm someone who wants thermal cameras and EMF detectors...but no one has that kind of money around here.

Anyway, I'm really digressing. We used an Ouija board that night in a way I had never witnessed before. The planchette flew all over the board (made out of paper by me...didn't bother with the Parker Bros.) I think it was probably either one of the owner's subconscious (my fingers didn't even touch it most of the time.) At any rate, I hope it made them feel better. They moved out soon enough anyway. Does this prove to me the house was haunted and that divination works? No. But in the heat of the moment it can make a compelling case.

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: MeanderThroughLife ]</p>

Bree

I am interested in finding out what the 'pagans' on this board think about the following things:

• "An' ye harm none, do what ye will" (from the Wiccan Rede) - do you take this statement to mean that performing a spell against the knowledge - and perhaps against the wishes - of another person (i.e. a love spell to bind another human being to you) to be wrong?
• What do you think about the different 'traditions' within the Old Religion? For example, several traditions claim to be the "real" Old Religion from which all modern paganism (including Wicca) stems - the "Faery" tradition, the "Druid" tradition, and the "Avalon" tradition (I was of the latter) are prominent on this list. Do any of you follow these traditions (for non-pagans: these are the Catholicisms of the pagan world - for example, as a priestess of the Avalonian tradition, I underwent a 4 year long training session which was VERY intense).
• As a followup to the above question - do you believe in solitary or coven practise? Why do you prefer one over the other?
• Many followers of the "old" tradition scorn neo-paganism because of the supposed lack of rules and training needed in order to be a practitioner. As I mentioned above, my coven required strict 4 year training to reach the level of priestess - we thought ourselves thoroughly initiated too. If you are a solitary or neo-pagan, what kind of rules do you set down for yourself as a pagan?
• Are you eclectic? If so, from what traditions do you draw from?

Sorry for all the questions - I've never really held deep conversation with pagans who weren't Avalonian before. I'm atheist now, but I look back on the 4 years I spent training to be a priestess as very valuable in my transition to atheism - and I still hold to some of the pagan traditions which I celebrated before.

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]</p>