Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Philosoft · 07-10-2002, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith Russell:
Greetings:

An unconscious belief is one where the person who holds the belief, has never thought about the belief, why he or she holds that belief, and whether or not the belief contradicts other beliefs he or she may also hold.

I don't see how this can be called a belief by any definition.

Quote:

I think many people form beliefs unconsciously. They see an example of a thing, and form a belief that all such things are similar to the one example they personally experienced, never thinking that they might have witnessed the exception, rather than the rule.

This is a cognitive patterning process, distinct, I think, from what we ordinarily call beliefs.

Quote:

From my experience, most people do not ever take the time--or make the effort--to consciously examine their beliefs. I'm not even convinced that most people even know that this type of 'mental inventory' and 'editing' is possible.

Exactly why I don't think these things should be called 'beliefs.'

The Messiah · 07-12-2002, 04:48 AM

Quote:

quote Philosoft

How about this one: Assent to a proposition or affirmation, or the acceptance of a fact, opinion, or assertion as real or true, without immediate personal knowledge

I can't envision a way to do this unconsciously.

It looks like we agree to an extent on the definition of belief.

Looks like the unconsciously/consciously definition is the problem. I think my heart beats unconsciously i.e. my mind is making decisions without requiring my conscious intervention. Similarly whilst not looking at the floor my mind can make assumptions about the position of the ground based upon my current position, to keep me walking. I'd call this an unconscious belief i.e. my mind accepts as fact that the ground will be at a particular position without being able to ratify this assertion.

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: The Messiah ]

Philosoft · 07-12-2002, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Messiah:


Looks like the unconsciously/consciously definition is the problem. I think my heart beats unconsciously i.e. my mind is making decisions without requiring my conscious intervention. Similarly whilst not looking at the floor my mind can make assumptions about the position of the ground based upon my current position, to keep me walking. I'd call this an unconscious belief i.e. my mind accepts as fact that the ground will be at a particular position without being able to ratify this assertion.

It occurs to me, though, that one should be able to reject or counter something that can be called a 'belief.' In this sense, I don't think walking can be said to have anything to do with beliefs.

hinduwoman · 07-16-2002, 05:22 PM

Sid I suggest you quietly slink out to start another thread called "Why do I have to believe in GOD?" with God in capitals.

Keith Russell · 07-17-2002, 07:54 AM

Greetings:

The same people who say 'you've got to believe in something' are the ones who believe that atheism is simply another religion, that elevates 'the self' to the level of the divine, or that 'science is your religion', etc.

These folks clearly don't understand the definition of the words 'belief', 'science', or 'religion'.

Beliefs can be rational--based on evidence; or they can be faith-based--based only on the desire to believe.

And, belief comes in a range of strengths. I can believe in something to the extent said belief is supported by the avialable evidence, yet still not believe it fully.

So, as an atheist, I have many beliefs, but I do my best to ensure that all of my beliefs are based only on the most current and complete evidence available to me.

This means that belief is not the death of inquiry, but that continued belief demands and necessitates continual learning, questioning, and refinement.

But, I don't agree that everyone believes--or must believe--in something supernatural, mystical, spiritual, or religous.

Keith.

Brahma's atheist · 07-20-2002, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Sid I suggest you quietly slink out to start another thread called "Why do I have to believe in GOD?" with God in capitals

I think you're right. They seem to be bogged down in pendantics and definitions.

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07-16-2002, 05:22 PM	#44
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Sid I suggest you quietly slink out to start another thread called "Why do I have to believe in GOD?" with God in capitals.

07-17-2002, 07:54 AM	#45
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Greetings: The same people who say 'you've got to believe in something' are the ones who believe that atheism is simply another religion, that elevates 'the self' to the level of the divine, or that 'science is your religion', etc. These folks clearly don't understand the definition of the words 'belief', 'science', or 'religion'. Beliefs can be rational--based on evidence; or they can be faith-based--based only on the desire to believe. And, belief comes in a range of strengths. I can believe in something to the extent said belief is supported by the avialable evidence, yet still not believe it fully. So, as an atheist, I have many beliefs, but I do my best to ensure that all of my beliefs are based only on the most current and complete evidence available to me. This means that belief is not the death of inquiry, but that continued belief demands and necessitates continual learning, questioning, and refinement. But, I don't agree that everyone believes--or must believe--in something supernatural, mystical, spiritual, or religous. Keith.

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