Azathoth

You missed one important part when you quoted me.Possibly this might have led to your misinterpreting my comments as other than an opinion.

I assumed that you had some kind of evidence backing your assertion that this was not the case.Hence,I asked you for some statistics.The term 'a lot' was less than helpful in telling me how many such people there are out there.

Actually,as I mentioned,there has been a dearth of statistics in our discussion.The only thing that immediately came to mind was Project Steve.However,I was originally offering an opinion based on my personal experience.Again,you seemed to be claiming knowlege of the subject.I assumed you had statisitcs to back up your original statement,hence I asked for that information.

What I wanted to know,since you seemed sure,was whether the percentages of YEC believers going into such fields,was lower than the percentages of non YEC believers going into those same fields.Obviously,there are far fewer YEC believers than non YEC believers.

Based on the YEC believers I know,I would say that this is the case.Discussing any aspect of evolution can upset them.In some extreme cases,to the point where they terminate the discussion.

You don't buy what?The theory of Cognative Dissonance?Again,I've observed this behaviour first hand among the religious.Is there a reason why you don't think this could be the case?

http://www.afirstlook.com/archive/cogdiss.cfm

http://www.dmu.ac.uk/~jamesa/learning/dissonance.htm

RufusAtticus

I think some of the biology profs or grad students on this board can attest to that. I believe pz has had a few students who switched their major from biology because they had religious issues with it. I'm sure that I might have some one day. There was an article in the NYTime about a year ago which talked about why the Islamic world gave up astronomy. In the begining they were the best astronomers and scientists in the world. That is because their scriptures taught them to investigate the world to learn about God. However, when they started finding things that disagreed with their scriptures, such as the nature of the solar system, they lost interest.

echoes

If this creationist-engineer connection exists because there are fundies with a scientific interest, but want to avoid a conflict with evolution, big bang, etc. then shouldn't there also be numerous creationist computer scientists and mathematicians? Does the book discuss that at all?

I am inclined to agree with others who have said that most people think engineer=scientist and so a YEC engineer may appear to be credible.

Warcraft3

Hmmmm...........the only possible thing I can think of is maybe there is a major called "electronics" engineering which has more of a "hands on" focus and less theory, math, and physics.

But I dont know for sure..........but that would be my best guess.



Russ

Warcraft3

LOL I guess I did miss the "It seems to me" part. Sorry bout that LOL

No I dont have any statistics backing up my assertion.....it appears we are discussing personal opinion here...

And I was also basing my opinion on personal experience.

LOL You keep saying that I seemed "sure" as if I made myself sound like I had done extensive research into the topic.....if I gave you that impression it wasnt intentional....

Well, I dont really know that many YECs....but the ones I do know dont really get upset over discussions...



I dont buy the idea that a signifigant number of people (including YECs) pick a specific technical field based on religious motivations (not counting Dr Jonathan Wells, of course...who did just that and has little respect from me because of it).....maybe it just goes completely against my way of thinking, but I find it hard to believe that people would do that in real life

Thanks for the links....but I am familiar with "Cognative Dissonance" theory.......I personally do not think I filter information in such a way (LOL although you could claim my disbelief about YECs avoiding certain fields could be an example of "cognative dissonance") and so I have a difficult relating with people who employ such filters.....



Russ

Warcraft3

Hello there Rufus....good to see you posting in a thread I am posting in....

If that is true, then it is really, really sad..........I just cant see someone changing their major because they have religious issues with it. Its really hard for me to imagine.....

Of course, I am one of the few people who left YEC because of what I saw in scripture....not science (the science came later).....so perhaps I have a unique perspective on this whole thing...


Russ

pz

It happens. And the blame lies solely on the shoulders of dogmatic, fundamentalist religion that sets up a conflict between superstitious teachings and the natural world -- and tells kids that they'll go to hell if they dare to question.

Warcraft3

Hello pz,

Well since I am a Christian I really dont think the Christian view is "superstition", but I do think many people have unbiblical views of Genesis. I think it is the unbiblical 24-hour day view that is the problem, not the text itself.

I see no conflict between the words of the Bible and the "words" of nature....both were written by the same author....

So if people are seeing a conflict I really feel sorry for them....



Russ

Warcraft3

By the way pz...............

What is your degree in (I assume something in the Biological sciences) and what classes do you teach?



Russ

DMB

Undercurrent is spot-on in defining the central purpose.

RED DAVE's comment is true of the run-of-the-mill engineers, but there are always a few cutting-edge people who, while producing innovative technology, push out the boundaries of scientifc knowledge as well.

In the UK it is possible to take a degree in Electronic Engineering. It has more Maths and Physics than the more general Electrical Engineering. I know this because two members of my family have these degrees.

It should not be ignored, however, that not all degrees in the same subject are equal. Certainly in the UK if you get a scientific or technological degree from a top university, you will have covered much more theory and have solved much more difficult problems than if you do it at one of the universities which are desperate to get students who are any good.

I'm sorry that I don't know where the statistics come from, but a few years ago I saw the results of a survey that showed that of people with some sort of technical degree the most likely to be believers (I think it was that and not just fundies) were engineers, then mathematicians, then physical scientists (including earth scientists) and least likely biological scientists. I don't know where computer scientists appeared, but I would suspect that they would be at the engineers/mathematicians end.
I think this would make sense, in that people who actively studied something biological would on average know the most about evolution and related topics, and maths and engineering the least.