Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tronvillain · 03-10-2002, 05:22 PM

When does the <a href="http://dictionary.msn.com/find/entry.asp?search=compression" target="_blank">compression</a> of the earth's core stop?

It stops the earth's core no longer decreases in size.

Shut the hell up.

[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: tronvillain ]</p>

Corwin · 03-10-2002, 05:26 PM

So just because we no longer SEE the results of that compression, that compression is no longer occurring? While there are some branches of quantum mechanics that MIGHT agree with you, at least partially.... they've never been conclusively proven. (And you accuse ME of psudeoscience?)

Mageth · 03-10-2002, 05:29 PM

I would agree with that Mageth... possibly you could explain to the class exactly when compression of the earth's core stops?

"Compression is a force. It is an external stress applied to an object that presses together. If the force of the compression is greater than the outward force of the object, the volume of the object will be decreased. Gases are easily compressed while solids and liquids are less easily compressed if at all."

The answer is: "compression" continues; volume decrease ends when the "outward force" of the object being compressed equals the compression force. When volume decrease ends, temperature stops rising. The pressure's still there, but it's not generating a change in volume or increase in temperature.

Note that this doesn't help your case;
increasing pressure due to the sinking of dense materials may be adding thermal energy by decreasing the volume of the core (I'm not even sure if this is the case?); if the system is in or reaches a static state, pressure would stop increasing and temperature would stop rising, but the pressure would still be there. Just like the book on the desk doesn't cause the table to heat up.

Corwin · 03-10-2002, 05:32 PM

Actually it does, although that may not be immediately obvious.

As long as there is compression there is energy being pumped into the system. Doesn't matter if the object being compressed is changing in size or not, the energy is still there.

tronvillain · 03-10-2002, 05:37 PM

Corwin:

Quote:

As long as there is compression there is energy being pumped into the system. Doesn't matter if the object being compressed is changing in size or not, the energy is still there.

If the object is not changing in size, it is by definition not being compressed.

Coragyps · 03-10-2002, 05:38 PM

Corwin: You said it yourself - "as long as there is compression". You MUST have the ACTION of compression - macroscopic movement or microscopic rearrangement of crystal lattices (= a change in pressure) to get any heat.

Mageth · 03-10-2002, 05:40 PM

When does the compression of the earth's core stop? It doesn't

Run away! We're gonna be a black hole!

I'm definitely no expert and need to read a few books myself, but it seems to me that you either 1) don't know physics from psychics; or 2) are too proud to admit when you're wrong.

If you know physics and are not wrong, then you should be able to submit a simple equation for calculating heat generated in a table by the aforementioned book.

NOGO · 03-10-2002, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Corwin
Ergo, temperature increases, in the same way it does when you stamp a coin. (The surface is smooth because the compression increases the heat enough that the metal becomes liquid. When the pressure is removed, the heat dissipates and the metal solidifies.)

Nonsense!
To liquify metals you need to increase the temperature to thousands of degrees.
Metals can easily be shaped without increasing their temperature. For example consider the metal in the wires of your stereo. You can bend them any which way without increasing their temperature by simply applying force. Coins are made with the same principle.

Try answering my previous post, Corwin.

[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: NOGO ]</p>

Corwin · 03-10-2002, 05:46 PM

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Again, the compression is there WHETHER IT HAS ANY EFFECT OR NOT!!!!!!

And there is still energy being directed into the system. Compressing a solid with insufficent force to make it change in size any is still compressing it. In this compression there is still energy. The energy doesn't just 'go away' simply because the solid object won't compress anymore. That energy is still there. You want a formula? I'll look for one. At the same time why don't you look for a listing of the first self-replicating molecules that would eventually become life? I think you'll have about as much success. In that case we don't know precisely what they were. We DO know they existed.

tronvillain · 03-10-2002, 05:48 PM

I think I may see the problem here: you are under the impression that for a force to exist a constant input of energy is required. This is simply not true, and that you think it is is probably a result of your intuitive ideas about physics. For a human to constantly push against a stationary wall requires energy, but this is an artifact of biology - replace the human with a compressed spring and no energy is required at all.

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03-10-2002, 05:22 PM	#181
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	When does the <a href="http://dictionary.msn.com/find/entry.asp?search=compression" target="_blank">compression</a> of the earth's core stop? It stops the earth's core no longer decreases in size. Shut the hell up. [ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: tronvillain ]</p>

03-10-2002, 05:26 PM	#182
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	So just because we no longer SEE the results of that compression, that compression is no longer occurring? While there are some branches of quantum mechanics that MIGHT agree with you, at least partially.... they've never been conclusively proven. (And you accuse ME of psudeoscience?)

03-10-2002, 05:29 PM	#183
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I would agree with that Mageth... possibly you could explain to the class exactly when compression of the earth's core stops? "Compression is a force. It is an external stress applied to an object that presses together. If the force of the compression is greater than the outward force of the object, the volume of the object will be decreased. Gases are easily compressed while solids and liquids are less easily compressed if at all." The answer is: "compression" continues; volume decrease ends when the "outward force" of the object being compressed equals the compression force. When volume decrease ends, temperature stops rising. The pressure's still there, but it's not generating a change in volume or increase in temperature. Note that this doesn't help your case; increasing pressure due to the sinking of dense materials may be adding thermal energy by decreasing the volume of the core (I'm not even sure if this is the case?); if the system is in or reaches a static state, pressure would stop increasing and temperature would stop rising, but the pressure would still be there. Just like the book on the desk doesn't cause the table to heat up.

03-10-2002, 05:32 PM	#184
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Actually it does, although that may not be immediately obvious. As long as there is compression there is energy being pumped into the system. Doesn't matter if the object being compressed is changing in size or not, the energy is still there.

03-10-2002, 05:38 PM	#186
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	Corwin: You said it yourself - "as long as there is compression". You MUST have the ACTION of compression - macroscopic movement or microscopic rearrangement of crystal lattices (= a change in pressure) to get any heat.

03-10-2002, 05:40 PM	#187
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	When does the compression of the earth's core stop? It doesn't Run away! We're gonna be a black hole! I'm definitely no expert and need to read a few books myself, but it seems to me that you either 1) don't know physics from psychics; or 2) are too proud to admit when you're wrong. If you know physics and are not wrong, then you should be able to submit a simple equation for calculating heat generated in a table by the aforementioned book.

03-10-2002, 05:46 PM	#189
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> Again, the compression is there WHETHER IT HAS ANY EFFECT OR NOT!!!!!! And there is still energy being directed into the system. Compressing a solid with insufficent force to make it change in size any is still compressing it. In this compression there is still energy. The energy doesn't just 'go away' simply because the solid object won't compress anymore. That energy is still there. You want a formula? I'll look for one. At the same time why don't you look for a listing of the first self-replicating molecules that would eventually become life? I think you'll have about as much success. In that case we don't know precisely what they were. We DO know they existed.

03-10-2002, 05:48 PM	#190
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	I think I may see the problem here: you are under the impression that for a force to exist a constant input of energy is required. This is simply not true, and that you think it is is probably a result of your intuitive ideas about physics. For a human to constantly push against a stationary wall requires energy, but this is an artifact of biology - replace the human with a compressed spring and no energy is required at all.

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