Shake

:notworthy LOL! Damn! I'm glad I wasn't drinking something when I read this. Oooh! Look! Nested quotes ... cool!

Thank you, Autonemesis. Unfortunately, my brain can't latch on to other examples right now (I'll probably think of something in an hour or two), but "gay" and "queer" are good examples of words whose meanings have been changed. Oh, if you're talking about slang, "bad" has come to mean good! Look at Back to the Future where Marty keeps using the word "heavy" in a way that doesn't mean physically weighty, which confuses Doc no end.

Yeah, I know, labels are labels. But not only can the meaning be changed, but associations can be changed too. No, I know it's not easy. Many people still see "gay" in a negative light. But I think many atheists would be ecstatic if the word "atheist" was as accepted as "gay" is now! We've got our work cut out for us, that's for sure. But the blacks, and the gays have paved the way and shown us it can be done. I've seen the saying, "A closed mind is a dangerous thing." We've got to open peoples' minds. Sure, some will only open so much, but once someone truly opens up, then they see that discrimination against atheists is no better than discrimination against blacks, women, homosexuals, or any other group that's different from them.

Alright, I've could go on, but I'm gonna cut this here, and get back to work.

wildernesse

Gay and queer are not arbitrary changes.

and
These meanings of words for homosexual are related to words that described how homosexuals were/are viewed (licentious, suspicious, unconventional). I'd argue that this is not an arbitrary assignment of meaning.

Edited to add: I also note that in your bigot's statement, you *ARE* using the word bright with the connotations that I'm objecting to.

--tibac

Toto

Both 'gay' and 'queer' were terms that originally had derogatory meanings, that were taken over and used as badges of honor. The Gay Liberation Front did not just decide to be "smart" or something else and try to hijack an existing word. They rejected the term 'homosexual' for ordinary use because it sounded too clinical.

If atheists were to do something comparable, we would call ourselves Infidels or Heathens, something playful and subversive. 'Atheist', like 'homosexual', sounds too clinical and has too much baggage attached to it.

MortalWombat

Technically, their "original" meanings were quite ordinary.

Rhea

I personally like Infidel and Heathen for the reasons proposed by Toto.

girlwriter

I absolutely agree with wildernesse and toto. Bright is way too loaded. It doesn't matter what the website says, because most people will never read it. If I go calling myself a Bright around my friends and accquaintances, I know exactly what the reaction will be. They will, with good reason, feel that I am being arrogant. The label implies "I'm clever and you're not," not matter what I want it to imply. If we want to turn the tables and give atheism a posative association, as homosexuals have with queer/gay, then we need to change people's perception of who we are, not the words we use to describe ourselves. Trying to set ourselves apart by implying that we're smarter than everyone else will not help. It's arrogant and closed-minded, IMO.

People need to know who we are, not what we are. Only then will people be able to replace thier inaccurate, negative stereotypes with real information.

Infidel works great, and we're already well on our way towards what homosexuals did with "gay."

Besides, 'bright' does sound fluffy, cultish and farnkly, pretty goofy. I won't be calling myself a bright, and I *know* my husband won't. Sounds like a line of dolls for preteen girls to me. Or maybe a new age religion.

girlwriter

OK, I just read the site, and no offense, Shake, but I don't feel that it's very well thought out at all. Their rationalization for the word is that there is nothing better. Bull. Naturalistic would be better, according to their own definition. "I'm a naturalistic." That would be more accurate than bright, and lacks the connotaion (and the denotation) that bright carries.

They say that bright doesn't mean what people think it means, because they're arbitrarily assigning a new meaning to it. Great. It will only work with other brights, then and in that case it's not needed. It's already been pointed out that you can't arbitrarily change a word's meaning. It's already been pointed out that what homosexuals did with the word gay is completely different.

And I'm sorry, but they never get aroundf to explaining just how they decided on 'bright' in the first place. There is only one rational reason to use that particular word as opposed to any other arbitrarily chosen word (like maybe, oh, let's say, Dim. We're dims. No, that would make people think we're dumb. Ok, how about...) They seem to be saying that the word is happy and light, and therefore a good way to introduce a posative association with atheism. (OK, "daisy" is a happy word. Why not "I'm a daisy" A what?! "A daisy." No, that won't work, how about...)

The fact is, it's not arbitrary. These people chose this word because of it's meanings, both connotative and denotative. They clearly want (subconsciously at the very least) to infer that they are bright (clever, shining examples), and non-brights are not. I'm sure these are fine people with good intentions, but attempting to set ourselves apart in this manner isn't going to help our cause at all.

ashe

I'll just throw in my two cents here.

As an atheist and skeptic, there is absolutely no way I would ever refer to myself as a 'Bright' in public conversation.

As much as the people on that site seem to think they can change the definition of the word, Bright is too loaded to be used in reference to oneself.

I wince just thinking about it.

I don't care how many 'bright' people suggested Bright; it is a bad idea and we need to come up with a better word.

Try again!

Kevbo

I'd much rather surprise someone with a hearty answer like "I'm a damned Infidel" than a confusing answer like "I'm a Bright."

Queen of Swords

This reminds me of L. Ron Hubbard and his Clears.