reprise

As someone who has bred and trained large dogs for years, I'd like to point out that very often dogs which ultimately attack human beings without provocation have displayed behaviour which indicated there was a problem long before the attack - in many cases the owners have either ignored the warning signs altogether or rationalised them away.

The hardest decision I ever had to make was recommending a bitch whom I was fostering (she had 10 pups in my bedroom) put down, because she was starting to display aggressive behaviour towards anyone who visited the house even when they entered our home with one of us - there was simply no way that the animal welfare organisation for whom I was fostering her would have been doing the right thing had they rehoused her.

three4jump

I didn't word my initial post very carefully, probably because this issue upsets me. To be more accurate, what I meant to say is that it may be a mistake to kill the dog and it is definitely a mistake to think killing the dog fixes the problem. True, there may be cases where the dog is too far gone to be rehabilitated, or the resources are not available. I certainly can't take them all in. I already have six animals from the pound, and I don't want to end up like those people you see on the news every once in a while who have dozens of animals and can't take care of them properly.

My little Tess is a 75 pound black lab mix, and she is the sweetest, shyest, kindest animal you could hope to meet--unless you are an intruder in her territory. We went to visit my mom, who dotes on Tess, and Mom happened to be wearing a sun hat that day. Tessy went ballistic (just barking, no snapping) at what she thought was an intruder until Mom took the hat off (just a second or two) and Mom reports that sweet little Tessy looked like a vicious hellhound ready to tear a limb off. If she were to escape the yard some day, through no fault of her own, and become cornered by a police officer or an animal control officer, she might display behavior that could be interpretted as aggressive. An instance of aggressive behavior does not mean a dog is a dangerous animal.

When a dog attacks a person, I would wager that a fair, objective analysis of the situation would reveal that human errors led to the attack, and killing the dog won't solve the human errors. True, some dogs may be beyond practical rehabilitation, but look at the humans first before blaming the dog.

I think Dorothy and Toto would agree with me.

three4jump

Reprise, I'm very sorry you had to put down an animal you were caring for, and I did not mean to be accusatory toward conscientious animal lovers who have had to euthanize dogs after reasonable options have been ruled out.

seebs

If the human error was "raise the dog badly", then it may not solve the human errors, but there's nothing else you can do.

If a "human error" that leads to a dog attacking is something that might seem reasonable without special training, then it is not a "human error" but a "dogs are not entirely compatible with humans" problem.

When a five-year-old child runs from an animal a bit bigger than him, it is not a "human error" that he is running, even if the dog is more likely to attack him if he does. It is an error to have left the dog in a position to make that mistake, or raised the dog so that it would not recognize humans as not acceptable prey.

But once you've done it, there's not much you can do to make the dog safe again, and I will always value innocent human children over innocent dogs.

reprise

I think one major problem is that many people are not conscientious enough to either surrender or euthanase a dog which is exhibiting worrying behaviour - they simply dismiss the behaviour rather than taking appropriate remedial action. Often the dogs do reach a point where it's going to be extremely difficult for them to ever be suitable for rehousing and euthanasia is the least worst option, but I sure as hell believe that their owners should receive a fine which is large enough to really hurt financially.

reprise

One thing I will say - and I know that many will disagree with me - is that no-one should acquire a dog unless they are prepared to meet all of the costs associated with owning a dog, and that includes making the property on which the dog is being kept "escape-proof" and paying for obedience training if you don't already know how to train a dog not to leave it's property even if the gate is accidentally left open : it should sure as hell have been taught not to attack just because it gets out and spots someone unfamiliar on the street!

Please remember that even non-aggressive dogs can cause children harm. We have a dog in our street who runs out and barks at passersby. She wouldn't hurt attack anyone, of that I'm sure, but I fear that one day she will scare a child walking past and that child will step onto the road in response to her barking - possibly into the path of an oncoming car.

three4jump

seebs, I'm not sure if I follow your reasoning. Dogs and humans are uniquely and thoroughly compatible. That's what dogs were genetically engineered for: to be companions for humans. As far as a child instinctively running and a dog instinctively chasing, that is a sticky situation. Ideally, the dog should have exposure to children with careful supervision, in order to be educated as to what kind of play is appropriate. When I first got my bike, one of my dogs chased after me and grabbed my pant leg with his teeth, thinking it was some sort of new game, possibly. I told him to knock it off and he never did it again.

Nowhere did I suggest that the safety of children be ignored for the benefit of the dog. Quite the opposite, I am saying it is often an illusion to think that killing a particular dog will make children safer in general. What will make the children safer is communication and education. The "dangerous dog" may be a symptom of an underlying problem that needs to be corrected.

three4jump

reprise, I am not the perfect dog owner. I agree that dog owners should take responsibility for the safety of their dogs, and I would receive low marks in socializing my dogs properly. I need to make the time to take them to the park more often and get them acclimated to children. In the mean time, I would hate for one of my dogs to pay for my mistake because the law views them as property and without rights. If I were to end up on my knees in handcuffs because of some mixup, as in the example posted by Cynical chick, my dogs might become agitated and protective. I would like to believe they would obey the "sit" and "stay" commands under any circumstances, but they have shown themselves to be susceptible to distractions on occasion.

reprise

To be perfectly honest, I do think that many people today live lifestyles which are incompatible with dog ownership - and they compound the mistake of buying a dog when they really don't have the time to care for it properly by buying a breed which is work and is not going to be happy living in an urban environment without a huge investment of time and effort by the owner.

Marduk

reprise said:
�there was simply no way that the animal welfare organisation for whom I was fostering her would have been doing the right thing had they rehoused her.�

But some do, we have a �no-kill� shelter in my town. Which is OK with me, it is privately funded and will house these types of dogs till they die naturally, fine. But they still offer them for adoption, including �Francine� a pit bull who they had offered for adoption with the small disclaimer �should be the only pet in new family�
No kidding, �Francine� was known to scale a 6 foot fence for the chance to kill another dog! She should not be adopted period. There are too many good dogs that need homes. If they want to support Francine with their own funds fine, I guess. But lets not let her out again.
When I went there to adopt a dog, I watched the dog I picked bite its handler on the way down to see me! I went right home.
Agressive dogs should not be put up for adoption by anyone.

My dog has some problems in this area (he has what they call �possession aggression� if he finds something he likes, he growls if I try and take it from him, but only me, anyone else can boss him around, I screwed up somewhere when he was a puppy) but he is never off leash outside the house and I have a locked fenced- in yard just in case, even though he has never bothered anyone but me.