Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Optional · 05-19-2003, 02:06 PM

So, lemme ask you guys this: How bout if I fully believe that all the claims are true, the Nazis did exactly what it is said they did...

But that the event, while undeniably tragic, was not unique in the least bit, and not the worst example of slaughter in history by a long shot... Thus, the event really doesn't deserve the name capital-H-Holocaust...

It seems to me at times that the emphasis placed on 'The Holocaust' makes it seem like THIS slaughter was worse than ANY OTHER SLAUGHTER EVER, that this slaughter was the defining event that gives 'slaughter' its definition. Seems to me that the amount of emotion spent on this historical event almost tends to downplay and cheapen all other slaughters...

So what if I said that no, the capital-H-Holocaust never happened... But the Nazi slaughter of Jews and other 'undesirables' in the WWII era certainly DID happen... And the slaughter of the already mentioned native americans also happened, and the slaughter of political 'undesirables' by Stalin also happened, and the Khmer Rouge (however you spell that) slaughter happened, and the slaughter perpetuated by Genghis Khan happened, and so and and so forth ad nausium.

Would that make me a 'Holocaust Denier'?

-me (ps I didn't vote in this poll, dunno who the 3 'no' votes are)

sphinx wui · 05-19-2003, 03:57 PM

http://www.cairotimes.com/news/ebeid.html

[Moderator Note: This is the last paragraph of the article referred to]

Hitler Tantawi, former head of the anti-corruption Administrative Supervision office, was also tipped for a key post--probably Minister of Cabinet Affairs, to serve as Ebeid's whip over the rest of the cabinet. Tantawi's rise, along with various pre-shuffle remarks from Al Gomhouriya's Ragab saying that the old government was weak at fighting corruption, suggests that official improprietries--perhaps even at the ministerial level--were also another key reason that Ganzouri was replaced.

Fairytale,

Mr. Tantawi is an Egyptian citizen who got a son and wanted to choose a name for the new boy and he kept reading in the papers about this guy called �Hitler� all over the news so he thought it is a good idea to name his son after this guy may be one day he will become famous as the original one.

Young Egyptian Hitler grew up in a peaceful country where no body hates no body based on COLOUR, RELIGION OR ETHNIC BACK GROUND, a country where every body got along with every body, you can�t find in this country signs like�EQUAL SOMETHING OPPORTUNITY� cause equality was the rule between people and didn�t need a low to enforce it.

Young Hitler didn�t do well in the school cause he was stupid so he joined the military academy and graduated from it as an army officer.

Hitler went up the ladder in the military until he became a general and joined the Egyptian team in the negotiations with Israel in the Eighties and when both teams met and started to introduce themselves to the other side the Israeli side panicked when they heard his name and asked for explanation! The Egyptians wondered why those stupid Israeli wanted explanation for a name and the Israeli explained to them that they found this name offensive to them but the Egyptians told them that those things happened a lot in Egypt and some crazy Egyptians name their kids after political figures like Roosevelt, Mosolini,Montogomery, Romel and the last famous one when an Egyptian women gave birth to 3 babies and called them Sadat, Carter and Begin and the Israeli shut up and set on the table to negotiate.

Now in Egypt we have a kid running in the streets called Carter and another asshole called Begin leading a happy life in this peaceful country and doesn�t have any kind of guilt what so ever towards any body cause when they went to school and studied history they learned that their country was the first civilized nation in the world and their ancestors were peaceful people and never massacred anybody and while everybody was killing every body, they were busy building nice things for humanity that lasted to this day as a witness to their civilization and when other civilizations tried to separate themselves from the others by building Great Walls around their country, their ancestors built Pyramids to go up and discover the unknown while leaving their borders, hearts and mind open to everybody to come and join them and build a light house in Alexandria to guide people regardless of race, color or religion.

One day, some kids in far a way land- whom by the way their ancestors and even fathers killed a lot of people- filled with guilt cause what their ancestors did started to play mind game called displacement in psychiatry by attributing their crimes to peaceful Egyptian kids and calling them murderers and terrorists cause the Egyptian refused to use the crimes that happened before as an excuse to commit another one. Egyptian kids don�t bother themselves with those crimes and condemned it if it happened and also condemn the other crimes but most importantly they want to prevent the crime that is going on right now.

The Egyptian Hitler to this day is a life and working for a corrupt government to fight corruption!! And other than stealing money and some nasty stuff he also doesn�t feel guilty and every body is making fun of his name while he is laughing.

Bye.
Holocaust denier(formerly Omar)

beyelzu · 05-19-2003, 05:23 PM

sphinx,

what the hell did I miss. I read your post I understand your point I think. But what does that have to do with denying the holocaust?

Daisy · 05-19-2003, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gurdur
With A Smidgen Of Norman

Norman!

That's like **ptoooiee** French!!

All I can say (the main subject being too serious) is "Ha, no wonder".

John Hancock · 05-19-2003, 06:13 PM

I think native Americans deserve their own thread....Take it there.

It seems strange to me that anyone could actually believe that the WWII Holocaust did not occur. Still all and all hate is not a rational emotion. I know this very well and would never trust myself in possession of a rifle within range of George W. Bush. Those that allow themselves to being drawn into self reinforcing rage can not enjoy life and are miserable and they continuously blame others for the pain they inflict upon themselves.

:boohoo:
Martin

Gurdur · 05-19-2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daisy
Norman!

That's like **ptoooiee** French!!

Actually, much more Scandanavian than French --- the Normans were settled Vikings.

And my name goes right back to Scandanavia through the Normans --- it's not a French name in derivation.

Quote:

All I can say (the main subject being too serious) is "Ha, no wonder".

*shrug*
I'm good in bed too.
No wonder merkins are jealous.

John Hancock · 05-19-2003, 06:54 PM

sphinx wui

You were told this as a child because all societies wish to foster national and cultural pride in their children. When one is no longer a child, he should progress past the childish beliefs. Recognize that dynasties are founded by conquest and in Egypt these military excursions are written in stone.

Now in Egypt we have a kid running in the streets called Carter and another asshole called Begin leading a happy life in this peaceful country and doesn�t have any kind of guilt what so ever towards any body cause when they went to school and studied history they learned that their country was the first civilized nation in the world and their ancestors were peaceful people and never massacred anybody and while everybody was killing every body, they were busy building nice things for humanity that lasted to this day as a witness to their civilization and when other civilizations tried to separate themselves from the others by building Great Walls around their country, their ancestors built Pyramids to go up and discover the unknown while leaving their borders, hearts and mind open to everybody to come and join them and build a light house in Alexandria to guide people regardless of race, color or religion.

In my youth we were taught that George Washington was an honest person who would not tell a lie. He'd grown up as a boy willing to take a whipping for having chopped down a cherry tree rather than lie to his father. What outlandish tomfoolery all lie and frequently to themselves. Washington married money and after the Revolutionary War he became the most wealthy man on the American contient. He never shyed away from useing his government influence to prosper.

Martin Buber

johngalt · 05-19-2003, 07:06 PM

How can someone believe that the Holocaust didn't happen when there is verifiable proof? It isn't like the Holocaust is just told in a book, there are furnaces and the mass graves that were found by the Allies. Whoever voted no really pisses me off.

sphinx wui · 05-19-2003, 07:37 PM

Most people think that Jesus is Son of God! Is this majority makes it a fact?
The majority argument is FALSE.

My point from my childish post was simple, IT IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS, IT IS YOUR CRIME NOT OURS and they are trying to use it to justify their crime against the Palestinians.

My situation is simple,

If it happened, it is shame on all of us as human beings, Hitler didn�t came from other planet and did it, he was completely human as any one of us and he dared to do it and this can tell a lot about the human nature......... BUT

Its occurrence doesn�t justify a second one to fix the first.

I have no problem to believe that it actually happened but what bothers me how they use it to justify their actions and blackmail others and if this horrible thing happened to you how you dare to inflect the same pain on other nation!

If any body has time to cry for the Jews about a crime happened 60 years ago I am very busy crying for the Palestinians and has no time for them.

See you all later

Totalitarianist · 05-19-2003, 08:10 PM

A Nazi once told me that they do not really believe that the Holocaust never happened; he told me that the whole thing is just part of a long term scheme among Nazis to make Nazism more "acceptable". Has anyone here heard of this?

View Poll Results: Did the holocaust happen
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05-19-2003, 02:06 PM	#31
Optional Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 1,049	So, lemme ask you guys this: How bout if I fully believe that all the claims are true, the Nazis did exactly what it is said they did... But that the event, while undeniably tragic, was not unique in the least bit, and not the worst example of slaughter in history by a long shot... Thus, the event really doesn't deserve the name capital-H-Holocaust... It seems to me at times that the emphasis placed on 'The Holocaust' makes it seem like THIS slaughter was worse than ANY OTHER SLAUGHTER EVER, that this slaughter was the defining event that gives 'slaughter' its definition. Seems to me that the amount of emotion spent on this historical event almost tends to downplay and cheapen all other slaughters... So what if I said that no, the capital-H-Holocaust never happened... But the Nazi slaughter of Jews and other 'undesirables' in the WWII era certainly DID happen... And the slaughter of the already mentioned native americans also happened, and the slaughter of political 'undesirables' by Stalin also happened, and the Khmer Rouge (however you spell that) slaughter happened, and the slaughter perpetuated by Genghis Khan happened, and so and and so forth ad nausium. Would that make me a 'Holocaust Denier'? -me (ps I didn't vote in this poll, dunno who the 3 'no' votes are)

05-19-2003, 03:57 PM	#32
sphinx wui Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: egypt Posts: 253	http://www.cairotimes.com/news/ebeid.html [Moderator Note: This is the last paragraph of the article referred to] Hitler Tantawi, former head of the anti-corruption Administrative Supervision office, was also tipped for a key post--probably Minister of Cabinet Affairs, to serve as Ebeid's whip over the rest of the cabinet. Tantawi's rise, along with various pre-shuffle remarks from Al Gomhouriya's Ragab saying that the old government was weak at fighting corruption, suggests that official improprietries--perhaps even at the ministerial level--were also another key reason that Ganzouri was replaced. Fairytale, Mr. Tantawi is an Egyptian citizen who got a son and wanted to choose a name for the new boy and he kept reading in the papers about this guy called �Hitler� all over the news so he thought it is a good idea to name his son after this guy may be one day he will become famous as the original one. Young Egyptian Hitler grew up in a peaceful country where no body hates no body based on COLOUR, RELIGION OR ETHNIC BACK GROUND, a country where every body got along with every body, you can�t find in this country signs like�EQUAL SOMETHING OPPORTUNITY� cause equality was the rule between people and didn�t need a low to enforce it. Young Hitler didn�t do well in the school cause he was stupid so he joined the military academy and graduated from it as an army officer. Hitler went up the ladder in the military until he became a general and joined the Egyptian team in the negotiations with Israel in the Eighties and when both teams met and started to introduce themselves to the other side the Israeli side panicked when they heard his name and asked for explanation! The Egyptians wondered why those stupid Israeli wanted explanation for a name and the Israeli explained to them that they found this name offensive to them but the Egyptians told them that those things happened a lot in Egypt and some crazy Egyptians name their kids after political figures like Roosevelt, Mosolini,Montogomery, Romel and the last famous one when an Egyptian women gave birth to 3 babies and called them Sadat, Carter and Begin and the Israeli shut up and set on the table to negotiate. Now in Egypt we have a kid running in the streets called Carter and another asshole called Begin leading a happy life in this peaceful country and doesn�t have any kind of guilt what so ever towards any body cause when they went to school and studied history they learned that their country was the first civilized nation in the world and their ancestors were peaceful people and never massacred anybody and while everybody was killing every body, they were busy building nice things for humanity that lasted to this day as a witness to their civilization and when other civilizations tried to separate themselves from the others by building Great Walls around their country, their ancestors built Pyramids to go up and discover the unknown while leaving their borders, hearts and mind open to everybody to come and join them and build a light house in Alexandria to guide people regardless of race, color or religion. One day, some kids in far a way land- whom by the way their ancestors and even fathers killed a lot of people- filled with guilt cause what their ancestors did started to play mind game called displacement in psychiatry by attributing their crimes to peaceful Egyptian kids and calling them murderers and terrorists cause the Egyptian refused to use the crimes that happened before as an excuse to commit another one. Egyptian kids don�t bother themselves with those crimes and condemned it if it happened and also condemn the other crimes but most importantly they want to prevent the crime that is going on right now. The Egyptian Hitler to this day is a life and working for a corrupt government to fight corruption!! And other than stealing money and some nasty stuff he also doesn�t feel guilty and every body is making fun of his name while he is laughing. Bye. Holocaust denier(formerly Omar)

05-19-2003, 05:23 PM	#33
beyelzu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the peach state ga I am a metaphysical naturalist Posts: 2,869	sphinx, what the hell did I miss. I read your post I understand your point I think. But what does that have to do with denying the holocaust?

05-19-2003, 06:13 PM	#35
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	I think native Americans deserve their own thread....Take it there. It seems strange to me that anyone could actually believe that the WWII Holocaust did not occur. Still all and all hate is not a rational emotion. I know this very well and would never trust myself in possession of a rifle within range of George W. Bush. Those that allow themselves to being drawn into self reinforcing rage can not enjoy life and are miserable and they continuously blame others for the pain they inflict upon themselves. :boohoo: Martin

05-19-2003, 06:54 PM	#37
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	sphinx wui You were told this as a child because all societies wish to foster national and cultural pride in their children. When one is no longer a child, he should progress past the childish beliefs. Recognize that dynasties are founded by conquest and in Egypt these military excursions are written in stone. Now in Egypt we have a kid running in the streets called Carter and another asshole called Begin leading a happy life in this peaceful country and doesn�t have any kind of guilt what so ever towards any body cause when they went to school and studied history they learned that their country was the first civilized nation in the world and their ancestors were peaceful people and never massacred anybody and while everybody was killing every body, they were busy building nice things for humanity that lasted to this day as a witness to their civilization and when other civilizations tried to separate themselves from the others by building Great Walls around their country, their ancestors built Pyramids to go up and discover the unknown while leaving their borders, hearts and mind open to everybody to come and join them and build a light house in Alexandria to guide people regardless of race, color or religion. In my youth we were taught that George Washington was an honest person who would not tell a lie. He'd grown up as a boy willing to take a whipping for having chopped down a cherry tree rather than lie to his father. What outlandish tomfoolery all lie and frequently to themselves. Washington married money and after the Revolutionary War he became the most wealthy man on the American contient. He never shyed away from useing his government influence to prosper. Martin Buber

05-19-2003, 07:06 PM	#38
johngalt Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 204	How can someone believe that the Holocaust didn't happen when there is verifiable proof? It isn't like the Holocaust is just told in a book, there are furnaces and the mass graves that were found by the Allies. Whoever voted no really pisses me off.

05-19-2003, 07:37 PM	#39
sphinx wui Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: egypt Posts: 253	Most people think that Jesus is Son of God! Is this majority makes it a fact? The majority argument is FALSE. My point from my childish post was simple, IT IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS, IT IS YOUR CRIME NOT OURS and they are trying to use it to justify their crime against the Palestinians. My situation is simple, If it happened, it is shame on all of us as human beings, Hitler didn�t came from other planet and did it, he was completely human as any one of us and he dared to do it and this can tell a lot about the human nature......... BUT Its occurrence doesn�t justify a second one to fix the first. I have no problem to believe that it actually happened but what bothers me how they use it to justify their actions and blackmail others and if this horrible thing happened to you how you dare to inflect the same pain on other nation! If any body has time to cry for the Jews about a crime happened 60 years ago I am very busy crying for the Palestinians and has no time for them. See you all later

05-19-2003, 08:10 PM	#40
Totalitarianist Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,234	A Nazi once told me that they do not really believe that the Holocaust never happened; he told me that the whole thing is just part of a long term scheme among Nazis to make Nazism more "acceptable". Has anyone here heard of this?

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